School me on towing

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

The 10 speed in the 2024 Mustang is pretty darn good. Is the "bad" 10 speed in the F150 based on a turbo engine or the 5.0, i wonder if that makes a difference

The 10 speed in the Mustang is very good but once you throw big horsepower at it they fail before the GM 10 speed in the Camaro does (manual guy so I don’t even know why I know this haha). I’m seeing the f150 have 10 speed issues certain years regardless of the engine choice.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

The 10 speed in the Mustang is very good but once you throw big horsepower at it they fail before the GM 10 speed in the Camaro does (manual guy so I don’t even know why I know this haha). I’m seeing the f150 have 10 speed issues certain years regardless of the engine choice.

Interesting. I prefer the RAM and the ZF, neither have ever failed me.

Yeah at about 800WHP the Mustang 10 speed does not like shifting at redline into 6th, that is why if you plan on boosting it you stay away from the 3.55s

[m6-lt1]

Post Update and wondering if you folks could help me out with a calculation. Bought a 2014 F-150 5.0 4x4 and I'm trying to figure out if the numbers say I can tow or not? If I can't tow I'm still happy with it as my new daily but I keep reading conflicting info about payload needing to be subtracted from tow capacity. It has the factory tow package with the larger radiator, trans cooler and class V receiver.

Truck numbers:
Tow Capacity: 7800
Payload: 1644 (includes full tank of gas)

Trailer Weight + car + wheels = 6,060 lbs. let's say tongue weight is 900 lbs which is on the high end.
Tonneau cover + weight distribution hitch = 175 lbs
Me, wife and dog = 315 lbs
Jack + tools + Ramps = 180 lbs
misc = 50 lbs.

This puts me just below my payload max at roughly 1630. Now this is with calculating the tongue weight on the high end.

Now my question is am I supposed to add payload to trailer weight? If I am I understand that I don't add the 900 lbs for tongue weight to "trailer weight" because I'd be double adding. So I'd only be adding 730 lbs to 6060 lbs. Is 6790 my total trailer weight even though 730 lbs of it is not actually in the trailer?

Basically I'm trying to figure out if I can safely tow this amount with the listed payload. I know you should stay at 80% or below your max tow capacity. If I only need to worry about the actual loaded trailer weight then I am good because 6100/7800 = 78%. If I need to include my payload in the actual truck then I am not good. Any help is appreciated. Thank you!

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

Post Update and wondering if you folks could help me out with a calculation. Bought a 2014 F-150 5.0 4x4 and I'm trying to figure out if the numbers say I can tow or not? If I can't tow I'm still happy with it as my new daily but I keep reading conflicting info about payload needing to be subtracted from tow capacity. It has the factory tow package with the larger radiator, trans cooler and class V receiver.

Truck numbers:
Tow Capacity: 7800
Payload: 1644 (includes full tank of gas)

Trailer Weight + car + wheels = 6,060 lbs. let's say tongue weight is 900 lbs which is on the high end.
Tonneau cover + weight distribution hitch = 175 lbs
Me, wife and dog = 315 lbs
Jack + tools + Ramps = 180 lbs
misc = 50 lbs.

This puts me just below my payload max at roughly 1630. Now this is with calculating the tongue weight on the high end.

Now my question is am I supposed to add payload to trailer weight? If I am I understand that I don't add the 900 lbs for tongue weight to "trailer weight" because I'd be double adding. So I'd only be adding 730 lbs to 6060 lbs. Is 6790 my total trailer weight even though 730 lbs of it is not actually in the trailer?

Basically I'm trying to figure out if I can safely tow this amount with the listed payload. I know you should stay at 80% or below your max tow capacity. If I only need to worry about the actual loaded trailer weight then I am good because 6100/7800 = 78%. If I need to include my payload in the actual truck then I am not good. Any help is appreciated. Thank you!

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f23...ty-156846.html


Just some people on the internet, but "To answer your question: The weight of the trailer is what it is. There is no deduction, period." sounds valid to me.

[gtstorey]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

Post Update and wondering if you folks could help me out with a calculation. Bought a 2014 F-150 5.0 4x4 and I'm trying to figure out if the numbers say I can tow or not? If I can't tow I'm still happy with it as my new daily but I keep reading conflicting info about payload needing to be subtracted from tow capacity. It has the factory tow package with the larger radiator, trans cooler and class V receiver.

Truck numbers:
Tow Capacity: 7800
Payload: 1644 (includes full tank of gas)

Trailer Weight + car + wheels = 6,060 lbs. let's say tongue weight is 900 lbs which is on the high end.
Tonneau cover + weight distribution hitch = 175 lbs
Me, wife and dog = 315 lbs
Jack + tools + Ramps = 180 lbs
misc = 50 lbs.

This puts me just below my payload max at roughly 1630. Now this is with calculating the tongue weight on the high end.

Now my question is am I supposed to add payload to trailer weight? If I am I understand that I don't add the 900 lbs for tongue weight to "trailer weight" because I'd be double adding. So I'd only be adding 730 lbs to 6060 lbs. Is 6790 my total trailer weight even though 730 lbs of it is not actually in the trailer?

Basically I'm trying to figure out if I can safely tow this amount with the listed payload. I know you should stay at 80% or below your max tow capacity. If I only need to worry about the actual loaded trailer weight then I am good because 6100/7800 = 78%. If I need to include my payload in the actual truck then I am not good. Any help is appreciated. Thank you!

Think of Payload as anything that loads the suspension of the truck, so you count the tongue weight.
Tow Capacity is the weight that the truck has to pull and stop so you count all of the weight of the load, trailer and anything added to the truck. But you don't add in tongue weight.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by gtstorey

Think of Payload as anything that loads the suspension of the truck, so you count the tongue weight.

Yep, that's how I got to 1,630 lbs for payload.

Originally Posted by gtstorey

Tow Capacity is the weight that the truck has to pull and stop so you count all of the weight of the load, trailer and anything added to the truck. But you don't add in tongue weight.

So this is where I think I miscalculated. I didn't think the payload (minus tongue weight) counted towards the tow capacity. That would be the 730 lbs of people, animals, accessories, tools and wheels. That puts me at 6,790 lbs at 87% of my tow capacity.

My total GCWR will be at 12,490 lbs. Legally I am allowed to do this as the manual shows 13,500 lbs if I am remembering correctly. I am guessing it's not smart to be within 1000 lbs of that max number. I would feel better about it if I added 3.73's and bigger brakes but this high number would only be towed one time.

I think this truck will work for me when I go to far away tracks by myself, with no tools and accessories other than the tonneau cover, WD Hitch, Myself, breaker bar/socket/torque wrench/tire plug kit/, ramps and misc (can borrow a jack from someone at the track usually incase of a flat). All of that will put me right at 80%. Maybe a hair above.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

Yep, that's how I got to 1,630 lbs for payload.



So this is where I think I miscalculated. I didn't think the payload (minus tongue weight) counted towards the tow capacity. That would be the 730 lbs of people, animals, accessories, tools and wheels. That puts me at 6,790 lbs at 87% of my tow capacity.

My total GCWR will be at 12,490 lbs. Legally I am allowed to do this as the manual shows 13,500 lbs if I am remembering correctly. I am guessing it's not smart to be within 1000 lbs of that max number. I would feel better about it if I added 3.73's and bigger brakes but this high number would only be towed one time.

I think this truck will work for me when I go to far away tracks by myself, with no tools and accessories other than the tonneau cover, WD Hitch, Myself, breaker bar/socket/torque wrench/tire plug kit/, ramps and misc (can borrow a jack from someone at the track usually incase of a flat). All of that will put me right at 80%. Maybe a hair above.

Legally, there are 2 stickers on the door jamb and if you get inspected you had better be within those limits. Be it ticketing or insurance.

No forum, manual, website, or otherwise will matter.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

Legally, there are 2 stickers on the door jamb and if you get inspected you had better be within those limits. Be it ticketing or insurance.

No forum, manual, website, or otherwise will matter.

Yeah I’d be within those limits.

Tire loading sticker shows 1,644 lbs for payload. GVWR is listed at 7,350. With what I have calculated I’d be within those limits and that’s with calculating tongue weight at 15% to be safe. Let me know if I’m misunderstanding you. Correct me if I’m wrong but I think GCWR matters too right? That had to come from the manual, not the stickers. Max number is 13,500 lbs.

Correct me if I’m wrong but to get curb weight it’d take the listed on the sticker GVWR of 7,350 minus the 1,644 number on the tire loading sticker which equals 5706.

Loaded trailer is 6,060. Cargo INCLUDING truck accessories equals 730.tongue weight = 900 lbs. 900+730 = 1630. 1,630+5706 =7,336 and that’s with calculating tongue weight at 15%. 7,336+6060-900=12,496. So about 1k under the GCWR.

Just wanted to know if I can safely stop the vehicle. Seems like the 80% rule is more of a longevity rule for parts on the truck. At least that’s what I was told of inquiring about this with folks. Towing capacity is 7,800. Loaded trailer + cargo puts me at 87% towing capacity. This amount of cargo would literally be a one time trip for me. Every other time I’ll be right at 80%.

[mlee]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

The 10 speed in the Mustang is very good but once you throw big horsepower at it they fail before the GM 10 speed in the Camaro does (manual guy so I don’t even know why I know this haha). I’m seeing the f150 have 10 speed issues certain years regardless of the engine choice.

It's the same transmission. GM and Ford co-built it

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by mlee

It's the same transmission. GM and Ford co-built it

Yeah looks like I was wrong. GM 10 speeds are having issues as well.

[bsn]

You should be good to go, the weight distributing hitch will help drivability. Keep your maintenance up-change the oil and trans fluid at the severe duty-shortest recommendation and no reason to worry. A good cooler will also help with trans life, PA has mountains but your rarely pulling a steep grade for more than a few minutes.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by bsn

You should be good to go, the weight distributing hitch will help drivability. Keep your maintenance up-change the oil and trans fluid at the severe duty-shortest recommendation and no reason to worry. A good cooler will also help with trans life, PA has mountains but your rarely pulling a steep grade for more than a few minutes.

Thank you. I’m getting the trans serviced shortly. While I don’t know the exact service history of my truck since I bought it used, I THINK the oil was changed appropriately. There is no cold start rattle (cam phasers) which happens on coyotes with late oil changes.

Are you saying I should change my oem cooler for an aftermarket market one? I read since I have the tow package it came with a larger cooler than non-tow package cars.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

Thank you. I’m getting the trans serviced shortly. While I don’t know the exact service history of my truck since I bought it used, I THINK the oil was changed appropriately. There is no cold start rattle (cam phasers) which happens on coyotes with late oil changes.

Are you saying I should change my oem cooler for an aftermarket market one? I read since I have the tow package it came with a larger cooler than non-tow package cars.

Nah, you should be good on cooling. Do the fluids... engine, trans, rear, differential etc... you will be good.

The best advice I can give as a "fair weather" tow-er, you are not out to win any races, easy on the throttle and brakes as much as you can be to be safe. Light off line throttle is key to powertrain management, even though it can be frustrating, especially with traffic these days.

Not sure if I posted this already but the early 2.7s had problems. Not that they are all/or bad just a thought.

My neighbor has a (not sire the year) one of the first ones.. 3.5 EcoBoost 150s, maybe a 2010? He had the injector failure? or something when he first got it - they fixed it and to this day he has that truck. Not sure the mileage but I am sure it is way north of 100K. He towed his travel trailer all over the place and has a utility trailer that he uses often.

Hit or miss.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

Nah, you should be good on cooling. Do the fluids... engine, trans, rear, differential etc... you will be good.

The best advice I can give as a "fair weather" tow-er, you are not out to win any races, easy on the throttle and brakes as much as you can be to be safe. Light off line throttle is key to powertrain management, even though it can be frustrating, especially with traffic these days.

Not sure if I posted this already but the early 2.7s had problems. Not that they are all/or bad just a thought.

My neighbor has a (not sire the year) one of the first ones.. 3.5 EcoBoost 150s, maybe a 2010? He had the injector failure? or something when he first got it - they fixed it and to this day he has that truck. Not sure the mileage but I am sure it is way north of 100K. He towed his travel trailer all over the place and has a utility trailer that he uses often.

Hit or miss.

Thank you for confirming. I wound up with a 5.0. Final year of the GEN 1 coyote. I wanted a 2.7 but every single nicely priced one got sold before I could get to it due to work. I did see that early ones had valvetrain issues however my budget was with 100k miles on them so I figured anyone I got would have been a “good” one. I’m happy with the 5.0. Definitely have to rev it out to get power but it’s not as bad as the Mustang 5.0 of the same year in regards to low end torque (different intake manifold and exhaust cams I believe to help out with low end torque).