SKIP-SHIFT??????

[69er]

Sounds like I may have been over-reacting. I'll see how it goes when I do my "normal" driving and see if this becomes an issue. If it is, I'll get the CAGS eliminator.

Thanks guys, for setting me straight!!

[LSxJunkie]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

The thing is that if it is physically possible to control the gear selection manually in such a way as to beat the guzzler tax, then why not just do the testing while operating the transmission in the most efficient manner?

To drive my point home, I'll ask why they don't have a throttle limiter feature on all cars to prevent people from making inefficient jackrabbit starts. Flooring the throttle all the time is inefficient and pollutes the air and they don't force all companies to put a restrictor on the throttle, so WHY do they put one on the Camaro's transmission?

CAGS forces EPA testers to do something they wouldn't normally do to save gas.....shift from 1-4. Nobody in their right mind does that normally. But they save xxx amount of gas doing so, thereby improving their EPA city MPG rating.

GM can't just tell the EPA people "we want a higher city MPG rating so don't drive normally, shift into 4th from first." For it to be valid, it has to be an installed feature.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

CAGS forces EPA testers to do something they wouldn't normally do to save gas.....shift from 1-4. Nobody in their right mind does that normally. But they save xxx amount of gas doing so, thereby improving their EPA city MPG rating.

GM can't just tell the EPA people "we want a higher city MPG rating so don't drive normally, shift into 4th from first." For it to be valid, it has to be an installed feature.

I still say that if there's a "technique" to driving a car to save gas then that's how the car should be driven when EPA testing. By your example, you are going to pin your mileage figures on what a test person considers "normal". Maybe "normal" acceleration is different from one guy to another? How do you judge "normal"? Maybe "normal" for the Camaro is to skip shift when you want to save gas. You put a "how to save gas" instruction in the owners manual and instruct the testers to follow the recommendations and all is well.

[LSxJunkie]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

I still say that if there's a "technique" to driving a car to save gas then that's how the car should be driven when EPA testing. By your example, you are going to pin your mileage figures on what a test person considers "normal". Maybe "normal" acceleration is different from one guy to another? How do you judge "normal"? Maybe "normal" for the Camaro is to skip shift when you want to save gas. You put a "how to save gas" instruction in the owners manual and instruct the testers to follow the recommendations and all is well.

You're talking about a government entity. They will make use of all 6 gears in their testing of a vehicle unless the vehicle prevents it. These vehicles, in situations of less than 20% throttle with the engine at normal operating temperature, prevents it. If we went by your standard, all car manufacturers could just put in their manuals "start in third gear and use less than 20% throttle to save gas" and everyone would make CAFE standards.

Stop being ridiculous. Getting rid of CAGS is a 5 dollar solenoid or a 20 dollar plug in. I'll take that over a 1000 dollar gas guzzler tax.

[upheval]

My Vette has it and I can not wait to get rid of it. Its a pain. I bought the car to go through the gears, I don't give a crap about gas milage.

[MajorTom]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

I still say that if there's a "technique" to driving a car to save gas then that's how the car should be driven when EPA testing. By your example, you are going to pin your mileage figures on what a test person considers "normal". Maybe "normal" acceleration is different from one guy to another? How do you judge "normal"? Maybe "normal" for the Camaro is to skip shift when you want to save gas. You put a "how to save gas" instruction in the owners manual and instruct the testers to follow the recommendations and all is well.

I've read the ferrari F430 which comes with an automated manual, gets EPA tested in the automatic mode because it's much harder to certify the mileage of a manual car.

The EPA would drive the car in the way that seems fit to them. And when they put the mandatory 1-4 gearshift in the computer, it means that they can "guarantee" everyone will get that. Even though it's easy to get around it's a pretty simple way of foolling the EPA. Or assuring the rating of their car.

And yes, of course normal is different from person to person. But the EPA has their own test procedures and they have changed from 06 to 07. Which explains why cars who got 17 mpg in 06 got 15 in 07. So it's not one guy who determines what's normal for a test, it's the EPA itself.

Seriously, how is this not obvious information?

If they simply put a "how to save gas" reccomendation, then they wouldn't have any assurance anyone would do that. They'd just say "Well, it says to do this, but we're going to shift like the trans tells us to." Which is 1-2-3-4. Because it's not mandatory to shift 1-4.

Edit: Oh yeah, and just like you said, there IS a technique to driving the car for getting the best MPG. It's called the skipshift.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by MajorTom

I've read the ferrari F430 which comes with an automated manual, gets EPA tested in the automatic mode because it's much harder to certify the mileage of a manual car.

The EPA would drive the car in the way that seems fit to them. And when they put the mandatory 1-4 gearshift in the computer, it means that they can "guarantee" everyone will get that. Even though it's easy to get around it's a pretty simple way of foolling the EPA. Or assuring the rating of their car.

And yes, of course normal is different from person to person. But the EPA has their own test procedures and they have changed from 06 to 07. Which explains why cars who got 17 mpg in 06 got 15 in 07. So it's not one guy who determines what's normal for a test, it's the EPA itself.

Seriously, how is this not obvious information?

If they simply put a "how to save gas" reccomendation, then they wouldn't have any assurance anyone would do that. They'd just say "Well, it says to do this, but we're going to shift like the trans tells us to." Which is 1-2-3-4. Because it's not mandatory to shift 1-4.

Edit: Oh yeah, and just like you said, there IS a technique to driving the car for getting the best MPG. It's called the skipshift.

So.... what you say makes sense except that GM jumped through hoops to make it hard to defeat the system (you have to buy a part to 'fool' the computer into thinking you have it hooked up).

I think if they had any sense they would put a menu on the DIC that lets you "adjust" the settings for some of these nanny systems. Make it so you can turn the thing off and have it remember the setting if you so choose.

What do the rest of you guys think of that?

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by headpunter

i dont get it, why is it so bad to have a skip shift thing? Learn2Shift?

its not just learning how to shift. its learning how to drive/shift so it isnt activated

Originally Posted by 69-er

Yeah, but it's a lot bigger RPM drop between 1-4.

true, but when you look at the reason that it was installed...

city driving.

how often do you see people gun it from a stop just to get to 20-30 mph, and then just let off and coast to the next light?

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

I still say that if there's a "technique" to driving a car to save gas then that's how the car should be driven when EPA testing. By your example, you are going to pin your mileage figures on what a test person considers "normal". Maybe "normal" acceleration is different from one guy to another? How do you judge "normal"? Maybe "normal" for the Camaro is to skip shift when you want to save gas. You put a "how to save gas" instruction in the owners manual and instruct the testers to follow the recommendations and all is well.

another thing to keep in mind is that 90% of dealer window stickers have the mpg rating, then in smaller letters it says "most drivers will achieve XXmpg" and most times its a higher number than the EPA rating

[lakestar]

I have the skip shift on my 95 corvette, I tried it for about two weeks and it drove me crazy, I'd relax and forget about it, then get blocked out of 2nd, and my brain would do 1/4 second freak. I probably could have gotten used to it after several months if it was critical, but it wasn't. I happily installed the $20 third party kit to disable it after 2 weeks. There is also an indicator light to show when to skip shift and that is still enabled, so if you are going for fuel economy, the system still helps you out.

[antimatr]

Hmmm. Never had the pleasure of enjoying the supposed benefits of CAGS when I had my '95 Z28; for some odd reason even though the skip shift light would come on at a certain speed/rev range in 1st under light throttle, I was still able use 2nd or 3rd gear, though on some occasions I humored the light and shifted into 4th. I wasn't particularly pleased with the results. Seems the previous owner didn't care too much for CAGS and quite possibly took some steps to render it nonfunctional. Can't really blame him.

Hopefully the 2010 Camaro's CAGS will be similarly easy to defeat.

[69er]

I wonder if the light can be disabled. HA! Pull the bulb!

[TAG UR IT]

The skip shift feature was added so the car itself would not get a gas guzzler tax. Simple as that. It's not the end of the world having it.

Personally, I'd much rather pay the $20 for the bypass (like I did) and literally spend 3 minutes installing it, than having to pay thousands towards a gas guzzler tax w/ no skip shift.

If it has the skip shift, just buy the SSE and be done with it!

[swifttal]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

another thing to keep in mind is that 90% of dealer window stickers have the mpg rating, then in smaller letters it says "most drivers will achieve XXmpg" and most times its a higher number than the EPA rating

Not me... If you divide by 2 and subtract 3, that's about my average...
I don't have stock in Exxon, they have stock in me

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by swifttal

Not me... If you divide by 2 and subtract 3, that's about my average...
I don't have stock in Exxon, they have stock in me

lol


rule #1 in saving gas.... a light foot.





but i should have added that the small wording for the actual MPG is usually anywhere from 4+/- mpg