Thoughts about building a California legal camaro?

[2010 4 DW]

Originally Posted by radz28

Doug Thorley's are the only shorties I'm aware of. I imagine we'll see something from Borla, Edelbrock, and Gibson come eventually, but I haven't seen numbers from BBK and JBA.

None of the shorties from any company are CARB certified as of yet. You can check the ARB website and I have called every header company and they all said NO CARB number as of yet.

DW

[MrE]

Originally Posted by 2010 4 DW

None of the shorties from any company are CARB certified as of yet. You can check the ARB website and I have called every header company and they all said NO CARB number as of yet.

DW

Hmm, this is odd. I was looking at headers, and most of the performance websites claim the DT shorties are 50 state legal. If someone bolts this onto their car believing they are staying legal, wouldn't the shop that sold the part(s) be liable? I don't want to single any advertiser out on the C5 boards, but a few state this "50 state legal" claim in bold letters.

It sounds like us CA folks only recourse for aftermarket parts are: Catback exhaust and a Maggie kit.

[macwest]

ANy idea on what shorties are carb legal for a corvette LS3 in cali. I would suspect those should be coming soon since it should be same header just certification under a different car. Just politics to wait on.

[brandotron]

Originally Posted by MrE

Hmm, this is odd. I was looking at headers, and most of the performance websites claim the DT shorties are 50 state legal. If someone bolts this onto their car believing they are staying legal, wouldn't the shop that sold the part(s) be liable? I don't want to single any advertiser out on the C5 boards, but a few state this "50 state legal" claim in bold letters.

It sounds like us CA folks only recourse for aftermarket parts are: Catback exhaust and a Maggie kit.

Hmmm, I'm thinking about it (and somebody with shorties please chime in), but it stands to reason that shorties wouldn't need to be CARB certified. The reason LT's are illegal here is because they change the location of the cats, and shorties don't do that. I'm running stock manifolds (since shorties do next to nothing for N/A LS1s) and I'd be interested in hearing from someone who knows for sure.

[MrE]

Originally Posted by brandotron

Hmmm, I'm thinking about it (and somebody ith ahorties please chime in), but it stands to reason that shorties wouldn't need to be CARB certified. The reason LT's are illegal here is because they change the location of the cats, and shorties don't do that. I'm running stock manifolds (since shorties do next to nothing for N/A LS1s) and I'd be interested in hearing from someone who knows for sure.

Yes, I had the same impression. That, and the O2 sensors are left intact and in the proper location. I was ready to pull the trigger on a pair of DT shorties, but all this talk of stenciled CARB numbers made me pause.

[Beyond Limits]

Originally Posted by brandotron

Hmmm, I'm thinking about it (and somebody with shorties please chime in), but it stands to reason that shorties wouldn't need to be CARB certified. The reason LT's are illegal here is because they change the location of the cats, and shorties don't do that. I'm running stock manifolds (since shorties do next to nothing for N/A LS1s) and I'd be interested in hearing from someone who knows for sure.

Technically you could argue that they would be legal because they do not alter the emission control system in any way, just as cat-back exhaust systems do not alter the emission control systems and subsequently do not require CARB EO numbers. However if there are any sensors in the headers then per CARB the part would require an EO number since they could potentially impact emissions.

[bbktech2]

CARB certification is required for any part that changes the engines performance or is related to the emissions. Headers, cold air intakes, fuel rails, adjustable fuel pressure regulators, mass air sensor housings, like in 80-90's Mustangs, underdrive pulleys, intake manifolds, throttle bodies all require CARB testing and approval with the issuance of an EO number. CARB even has a EO number program for limos!! I read awhile back about a limo builder in Ontario, Ca that didn't get his EO numbers for limos he built and was fined $10,000. Why? Because he had added length to the fuel lines when the cars got streched and that needs CARB approval!!
As I've said before, most companies will get the needed EO numbers, but will not do it item by item and new products can't be added to current numbers that the companies have. They are going to wait until they have a group of items to be done because of the cost of the testing required. That and the EO process will take 6-8 months, minimum, to get done. That's if you stay on top of CARB and keep bugging them about finishing it and you have immediate access to whatever test vehicle they want used for the testing.
As it's been said, don't get caught driving like an idiot and you will probably never have a problem. By the time you HAVE to smog your cars, everybody will have the EO numbers. Legally the EO number has to be inscribed on the part or the manufacturer has to include a sticker with the number on it. The manufacturer has to tell CARB which way it will be displayed on the application forms. In the case of these Camaro products, most likely we'll provide stickers.

[Ghost-Rider]

Remember these words: "I DO NOT consent to any search. Am I being detained or am I free to go?"

[bbktech2]

@Ghost rider...Those words used to work in a free democratic society. Sadly, that is not the case anymore. In most cases uttering those words to an officer will only result in the complete ruining of your day.

[brandotron]

Originally Posted by Ghost-Rider

Remember these words: "I DO NOT consent to any search. Am I being detained or am I free to go?"

I would think that a louder aftermarket exhaust or a rapid acceleration would be probable cause to make you pop the hood.

[TK]

Originally Posted by brandotron

That is waaay expensive and will be negated if you get pulled over and searched again. And like you said, if you're getting searched it's probably because you were driving like a maniac--pretty likely it would happen again.


The issue is with some of the newer systems. The Maggie is CARB certified, but Edelbrock and all of the Cetri's are still pending certification.

It's not expensive, I lived in Cali for 4 years. Generally people will do it for between 20 and 60 dollars. The smog shop guys will just throw on a vehicle they know will pass (my friend would put his truck on and have it run the tests), and attach it to your VIN. Those Smog shops are all scams anyways, they can get cars without cats to pass sniffer checks just by running them extremely hot... California, scamming you one more way a day for the rest of your life.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by TK

It's not expensive, I lived in Cali for 4 years. Generally people will do it for between 20 and 60 dollars. The smog shop guys will just throw on a vehicle they know will pass (my friend would put his truck on and have it run the tests), and attach it to your VIN. Those Smog shops are all scams anyways, they can get cars without cats to pass sniffer checks just by running them extremely hot... California, scamming you one more way a day for the rest of your life.

That's cheap!!! $450 in my parts!!!

[brandotron]

Originally Posted by TK

It's not expensive, I lived in Cali for 4 years. Generally people will do it for between 20 and 60 dollars. The smog shop guys will just throw on a vehicle they know will pass (my friend would put his truck on and have it run the tests), and attach it to your VIN. Those Smog shops are all scams anyways, they can get cars without cats to pass sniffer checks just by running them extremely hot... California, scamming you one more way a day for the rest of your life.

Dang, that's some price! Going rate was 300 bones around here a few years ago.

[TK]

Gotta know the right people... ask around... I lived in the Palmdale area and one guy guaranteed to get my '85 Merkur XR4Ti to pass smog when no body else could, for $60 in his pocket, and obviously the cost of the registration smog check. One of my friends got an underage kid to do it for him for 2 30 packs of beer, lol.

A Friend of mine in Houston would charge people anywhere between $100-$300 depending on how gullable they were, like anything you gotta be able to negotiate well.