GM not honoring my Camaro paint warranty; paint cracking and peeling all over the car

[Scott@Bjorn3D]

I would PM Fbodfather and get him notified of this. I had to pull alot of strings to find out about the computer bug in the car. If I had not pulled them in the story from GM area managers was that a V-6 Camaro is faster than a V-8 SS.

[jackr67]

Thanks everyone for your support. I really love my Camaro, and it just makes me sick that I'm getting treated this way by GM. It's good to have friends out there.

Last week I sat down with the service and body shop managers at the dealership where I purchased the car, John Miles Chevrolet in Conyers GA, and we talked at length about the paint. We reviewed the dealership's records together and there is nothing there suggesting that any body/paint work was done on the car by John Miles. They tell me the car came fresh off a truck from GM, went straight into the showroom, and I bought it a few days later.

A friend owns a prominent Chevrolet dealer out of state, and was kind enough to look up my VIN in GM's database, where sometimes record can be found of "exception" paint work done by the factory. There were no such records for my car.

So far, I have been operating on the assumption that GM really does want to do the right thing, and I've been trying to be patient. Believe me - it's not easy. My attorney advised me to park the car and not drive it. Except for trips to body shops, PPG and my attorney’s office for inspection, the car has not been driven since I got it back on 6/24/2010. That has to be the worst part.

Initially, in December, John Miles offered to repaint the areas of the car where we found trash in the paint. After setting an appointment in January to have that done, the service manager called me up and asked me to cancel the appointment because he'd decided that he did not think his body shop could do a good enough job - that their work would be worse than the factory work we were trying to fix.

I was disappointed, but frankly too busy to do anything about it until April when I started to see signs that the paint was getting much worse - which is when I went to Rick Hendrick to have them take a look at it.

To the questions:
1) I've always hand washed the car. I've never taken it to an automated car wash, or had anyone other than myself wash it. I've had black cars in the past, and I've got the routine down: microfiber sponge, microfiber towels, etc. It's tough to get a "macro" digital picture of cracks on black paint .. the light just doesn't cooperate. The pictures end up a little overexposed, or a little fuzzy.
2) To clarify: to my knowledge my warranty is currently valid. Marty's stipulation was that if I were to take his settlement offer, that at that point my warranty becomes void. He also asked that I agree to waive my lemon law rights, right to arbitration, etc .. I do have this in writing.

I've painted cars myself, but I'm not an expert in paint work. All I can do is rely on the opinions of the experts I've taken the car to. Their unanimous opinion was that the car's paint job was abnormal, and not up to new car standards - because of the excessive thickness of the paint, the variations in paint thickness, the trash in the paint and the poor painting technique evidenced by the high/low spots in the paint. Where that paint work may have been done, I couldn’t guess. All I know is that it's not right that I get left high and dry by GM.

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

People keep blaming GM. While GM does have their issues, these problems at the dealers are the result of BS dealers who are not taking care of their customers. I have NEVER had a problem at my dealer. We have had several issues over the years with cars. Our dealer always takes care of us. They are commited to customer service. It's just how they run their business. Unfortunately not all dealerships do this. To me this is all on your dealer.
They need to go to bat for YOU. That's what a good dealer does.

[The Stig]

But GM painted the cars...

Yea but the PPG found that someone repainted it after GM. So let's say GM's paint was complete crap to begin with -> that would lead the dealer to repaint it. Why did the dealer repaint it incorrectly? Blame falls on the dealer. Now if GM painted the car perfectly -> the dealer had to repaint it, and they effed it up. Again, blame goes on the dealer. The only way he could be getting such a large variation in thickness is if the robot arm suddely got taken over by a 7 year old trying to play one of those claw games OR it was painted by hand.

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by EnvyTerra

But GM painted the cars...

I'm talking about after the fact. Yes GM painted the car, there are problems, now we need a resolution. The dealer needs to get this guy a resolution. By the dealer not standing behind the customer with these paint problems is what has caused the resolution problem. If they would have said, oh yeah, there is definetly a problem, reported to GM that they too believe there is a problem, I seriously doubt GM would have denied warranty.

[skuttduck]

Originally Posted by jackr67

To the questions:
1) I've always hand washed the car. I've never taken it to an automated car wash, or had anyone other than myself wash it. I've had black cars in the past, and I've got the routine down: microfiber sponge, microfiber towels, etc. It's tough to get a "macro" digital picture of cracks on black paint .. the light just doesn't cooperate. The pictures end up a little overexposed, or a little fuzzy.
2) To clarify: to my knowledge my warranty is currently valid. Marty's stipulation was that if I were to take his settlement offer, that at that point my warranty becomes void. He also asked that I agree to waive my lemon law rights, right to arbitration, etc .. I do have this in writing.

I've painted cars myself, but I'm not an expert in paint work. All I can do is rely on the opinions of the experts I've taken the car to. Their unanimous opinion was that the car's paint job was abnormal, and not up to new car standards - because of the excessive thickness of the paint, the variations in paint thickness, the trash in the paint and the poor painting technique evidenced by the high/low spots in the paint. Where that paint work may have been done, I couldn’t guess. All I know is that it's not right that I get left high and dry by GM.

I hope you get everything straightened out. I don't like the settlement offer either. You waive the warranty? Are they talking warranty for paint only, or powertrain and the rest of the vehicle?

How about this scenario though. Your car has to come a long way to get from Canada to Georgia.

Another possibility is that the car left the plant with a robotic paint job. The car arrived at the dealer with a repaired paint job.

What I am saying is that maybe your car was damaged in transit, and the transit company did a substandard shoddy repair.

I wonder how much time elapsed between the build date and when the dealer got it?

Mine for example was built on 9-2-2009, and got to the dealer on 9-17-09. A good amount of that time was because of the factory installed stripes.

[2SSRS@Gen5diy]

Originally Posted by BackinBlackSS/RS

People keep blaming GM. While GM does have their issues, these problems at the dealers are the result of BS dealers who are not taking care of their customers. I have NEVER had a problem at my dealer. We have had several issues over the years with cars. Our dealer always takes care of us. They are commited to customer service. It's just how they run their business. Unfortunately not all dealerships do this. To me this is all on your dealer.
They need to go to bat for YOU. That's what a good dealer does.

With respect it is GM, The way i see it is the district manager Is out to make him self look good, By trying to save them $, This is how big company's operate, First you tell the costumer he did it to the car (even if there is no prof, That is the case) And when he stands up and tell them that i will use the Lemon Law In Georgia and i will see you there, Guy comes back to offer only half the cost of the repair.

That is the way they always Try to do it its called cost analysis.

If you tell 8000 ppl that it there fault what % don't come back? then form the group that continue to argue open and close files till they get fed up and go away, Next comes the offer for up to !/2 the cost.( And that is only because you said that you are going to the Lemon Law, If you did not say that all you will see is up to %33 of the cost)

Now the fun part, GM has lots of attorney’s on retainer so they have lots of time to fight you, But don't Give in one inch you are in the right and they know it.

I love there cars but hate there business management tactics.

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by 2SSRS

With respect it is GM, The way i see it is the district manager Is out to make him self look good, By trying to save them $, This is how big company's operate, First you tell the costumer he did it to the car (even if there is no prof, That is the case) And when he stands up and tell them that i will use the Lemon Law In Georgia and i will see you there, Guy comes back to offer only half the cost of the repair.

That is the way they always Try to do it its called cost analysis.

If you tell 8000 ppl that it there fault what % don't come back? then form the group that continue to argue open and close files till they get fed up and go away, Next comes the offer for up to !/2 the cost.( And that is only because you said that you are going to the Lemon Law, If you did not say that all you will see is up to %33 of the cost)

Now the fun part, GM has lots of attorney’s on retainer so they have lots of time to fight you, But don't Give in one inch you are in the right and they know it.

I love there cars but hate there business management tactics.

My dealer does NOT operate this way. They side with the customer and go over that reps head if needed. That's why I say it is on the dealer to take care of this customer.

[2SSRS@Gen5diy]

Then we all need to buy from your dealer, But that is out of the question, More then 4 times this has happen to me from 1975 till today, There is and old saying, "A tiger never changes his stripes". Or this one, "Meet the new boss same as the old boss".

And its not only with GM, this is how corporate world works.

Its called loss assessment.

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Bottom line, if the dealer feels the customer is on the up and up then they can get this resolved for him. They either choose to take care of the customer or they choose not too. NOW, having said that, if there is some legitimate doubt as to the cause of the problem, then obviously this can complicate things.

[SS Mike]

Originally Posted by jackr67

Thanks everyone for your support. I really love my Camaro, and it just makes me sick that I'm getting treated this way by GM. It's good to have friends out there.

Last week I sat down with the service and body shop managers at the dealership where I purchased the car, John Miles Chevrolet in Conyers GA, and we talked at length about the paint. We reviewed the dealership's records together and there is nothing there suggesting that any body/paint work was done on the car by John Miles. They tell me the car came fresh off a truck from GM, went straight into the showroom, and I bought it a few days later.

A friend owns a prominent Chevrolet dealer out of state, and was kind enough to look up my VIN in GM's database, where sometimes record can be found of "exception" paint work done by the factory. There were no such records for my car.

So far, I have been operating on the assumption that GM really does want to do the right thing, and I've been trying to be patient. Believe me - it's not easy. My attorney advised me to park the car and not drive it. Except for trips to body shops, PPG and my attorney’s office for inspection, the car has not been driven since I got it back on 6/24/2010. That has to be the worst part.

Initially, in December, John Miles offered to repaint the areas of the car where we found trash in the paint. After setting an appointment in January to have that done, the service manager called me up and asked me to cancel the appointment because he'd decided that he did not think his body shop could do a good enough job - that their work would be worse than the factory work we were trying to fix.

I was disappointed, but frankly too busy to do anything about it until April when I started to see signs that the paint was getting much worse - which is when I went to Rick Hendrick to have them take a look at it.

To the questions:
1) I've always hand washed the car. I've never taken it to an automated car wash, or had anyone other than myself wash it. I've had black cars in the past, and I've got the routine down: microfiber sponge, microfiber towels, etc. It's tough to get a "macro" digital picture of cracks on black paint .. the light just doesn't cooperate. The pictures end up a little overexposed, or a little fuzzy.
2) To clarify: to my knowledge my warranty is currently valid. Marty's stipulation was that if I were to take his settlement offer, that at that point my warranty becomes void. He also asked that I agree to waive my lemon law rights, right to arbitration, etc .. I do have this in writing.

I've painted cars myself, but I'm not an expert in paint work. All I can do is rely on the opinions of the experts I've taken the car to. Their unanimous opinion was that the car's paint job was abnormal, and not up to new car standards - because of the excessive thickness of the paint, the variations in paint thickness, the trash in the paint and the poor painting technique evidenced by the high/low spots in the paint. Where that paint work may have been done, I couldn’t guess. All I know is that it's not right that I get left high and dry by GM.

Once again I'm seeing signs that still point at the dealer. Your dealer offers to repaint your car for you, knowing full well how bad the quality of your paint is. Then right before you bring it in, they say "nevermind, we don't think we could do as good a job as the factory".

Now your dealer is admitting that their paint would come out worse than the way your car sits now!? Why do they even have a body shop then that offers paint? If they're that bad then I think they're more than capable of painting your vehicle as bad as it seems to have been painted, after it came out of the factory.

Just because they say they have records showing the car came off the truck with no damage, doesn't mean it's true. Are there pictures of the car when it came off the truck? Were you there? Was someone you know and trust there to witness your car coming off the truck that can verify how the paint looked?

I don't mean to blame your dealer, I don't know anything about them, but I do know how paint works when done at the factory. I don't see any way this could have happened, unless there was a major malfunction in the paint booth in which GM would have known about it. As someone else mentioned, the way your paint looks could have only been done by hand. Where your paint is chipped there is more paint underneath, not primer. That's a clear sign of a car that has been repainted and improperly prepped, or a rushed job.

I wish you the best of luck, and I do think GM should at least help you figure out what happened to your car. If it turns out GM was at fault, then I hope they do the right thing and fix your paint, or give you a new car.

[Berean]

I think it's the dealer too.

One explanation might be that the dealer "traded" for the car and got it from another dealer.

Is there any way to tell what dealer the car was originally delivered to?

Either way, I think it's pretty clear the car was painted after it left the factory.

[jackr67]

I don't mind that my car will from time to time have problems - it's a fact that nothing is perfect. What does bother me is the way that Marty has decided to try and handle this on behalf of GM.

Most GM customers may not be enthusiasts. They may not have access to a network of independent body shops that can provide expert, unbiased opinions. They may not have access to PPG or the equipment to accurately measure paint thickness. Without these resources, would an average customer have even gotten this far? Should customers really be required to go to these lengths to compel GM to honor their warranty obligations?

True - if the car has had paint work, and it looks very likely that it has, I have no proof where in the chain it happened. It's possible that it happened at the factory, in transit, or at a dealership. The only thing I can say is that it happened in the first 8 miles of the car’s life. Without additional information that only GM can provide, I have no way to pinpoint it beyond that for sure.

That’s the real rub here, far as I’m concerned.
1) Marty has personally had the car to inspect for 10 full days.
2) Marty is capable of examining the paint on the car and making the same determination all four of the experts I consulted did – the paint is not normal, or up to factory standards.
3) Marty has access to the same paint thickness measuring equipment that PPG used.
4) Marty has access to GM’s internal documentation on the car’s history.

I cannot help but assume that by combining those four elements - if he’s doing his job - Marty should know full well what happened to my car. What then could he possibly gain for GM by pretending there isn’t a problem and causing all this fuss? Sure, he may save a few dollars here and there – but at what cost?

I’m a reasonable person, and I really enjoy the car – over the last eight months I have shown myself to be more than willing to work with GM to identify and resolve the problem. Perhaps most people would have rolled over and sold the car, or accepted the settlement – but what kind of an experience would that be for them if they had? Would they run out and buy another GM vehicle? Would they have nice things to say about GM?

I was a conquest for GM. Not only is this Camaro my first GM vehicle, but it’s also my first American vehicle. How excited do you suppose I am about buying another GM vehicle after this experience?

Now, it’s going to take more than a pat on the head from GM to bring this to resolution for me. I’m paying for a car that I cannot drive, and I’ve been forced by GM into filing for relief through Georgia’s Lemon Law. This has been a very unpleasant experience that really did not need to have happened at all.

Questions:
1) Marty was not specific on whether the entire vehicle warranty would be voided, or only part. He just said “the warranty”. Frankly, seeing how GM stands behind their paint warranty, I don’t see the “100,000 mile warranty” as being worth very much either way.
2) I don’t know how to confirm which dealer originally took delivery of the car. Does anyone reading this thread have access to that information? My VIN is 2G1FT1EW8A9156954

[skuttduck]

Originally Posted by jackr67;2130143Questions:[/FONT

[/COLOR]
1) Marty was not specific on whether the entire vehicle warranty would be voided, or only part. He just said “the warranty”. Frankly, seeing how GM stands behind their paint warranty, I don’t see the “100,000 mile warranty” as being worth very much either way.
2) I don’t know how to confirm which dealer originally took delivery of the car. Does anyone reading this thread have access to that information? My VIN is 2G1FT1EW8A9156954

Your car is on Spastic Squirrel
http://camaro.spasticsquirrel.com/2010old

JOHN MILES CHEVROLET, INC.
950 DOGWOOD DR
CONYERS, GA

The window sticker was found on 10/21/2009