Open Letter from Al Oppenhieser to the Camaro Nation and Ford.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

You are certainly allowed your opinion.

What I would submit to you is that the world has changed. We live in a society that insists on rules and regulations. CAFE and Emissions standards along with safety standards are making it harder to offer inexpensive high performance as we saw in the 60s and very early 70s. You'd better brace yourself - because CAFE combined with the Law of Supply and Demand is surely going to price V8 engines higher and higher.

You don't like that and WE don't like that - but that doesn't matter to our elected officials in Washington.

I would beseech you to hold your judgement about the ZL1 until you have the opportunity to drive one or ride in one or witness firsthand what its capabilities are. It isn't your 'traditional' Camaro. While there are those (very few) that want crank windows and no air conditioning and the lightest possible car - there are many more who want a blindingly fast car - but that also offers a great ride - comfortable seats (for driving cross-country to the next Camaro5Fest ) -- with a level of refinement. Oh yes - and they want a 10,000 watt stereo that makes your ears bleed..........

As a manufacturer, we must look at the larger picture.....

(keep in mind that we're never finished - remember when we thought the LT1 was the cat's jammies???)

On a "personal" level - May I ask you to please stop with the "Pig" remarks. I promise not to call anyone in your family a "Pig" if you promise to stop calling my 'kids' Pigs...... K?

along those lines... this isn't 1969. We just announced that the Camaro gets a 5-star crash rating in every category. Every category. That isn't easy to engineer. That's also one of the reasons why the car weighs more than we'd like. Further, we - not you - have to hit those CAFE targets - so please understand that we are not being careless with the weight.

It's hard to promise that you'll "listen to the customer" knowing that no matter what you do - there will always be someone complaining about price or weight or *insert panic du jour here*...... The Camaro team does more to talk with its customers than any car or truck team out there....bar none..... That's a promise and a guarantee. And don't take my word for it - ask one of our Camaro Disciples.

If you happened to be around in January thru August of 2006, you may recall that there was great concern that GM would NOT build a Camaro that looked like the Camaro concept that we unveiled on January 9th of 2006. I personally talked to tens of thousands of people during those months - and ONE message came thru loud and clear: "BUILD IT AND IT HAD BETTER LOOK JUST LIKE THIS SILVER CONCEPT THAT I'M LOOKING AT!"

..........and so we did. Now - to "lose weight" - I'd love to hear your thoughts on how we do that. - I'd like indepth engineering analysis on how you would reduce the weight while keeping the larger picture in mind (so that we remain the top seller in the segment)

Should we cut it down to 90 percent of the current size? That doesn't work unless everyone who wants to drive it is 5 feet tall or less.

Make it out of aluminum and exotic materials? -- well -- you already told me that we priced the car too high.

change the style? Well - if we did, then some might accuse us of not listening to the customer.

Look - I don't mean to bash you - but before you bash us - please consider that there are many other opinions about this car that may be 180 degrees from where you view it.......

The team has been working 7 days a week since the early part of the new century........no, I'm not kidding. When we aren't working on the cars, we're out there talking to YOU - the enthusiast.

If I sound a bit 'cranky' -- it's probably because I am - look at some of the posts on here.

Now - tomorrow morning I'm going to walk into a convention center in Illinois with the ZL1 - and I'm going to once again listen to the voice of the customer - and I (and the team) will try to deliver a car that far exceeds the expectations of our enthusiasts - while also 'reaching' for those who many not have considered a Camaro in the past -- and we will have to make some hard, fast decisions.

Lastly - the Corvette may be in a league of its own - but it's still a Chevrolet and we still have Mustang owners who trade their pony in on a Corvette - so yes, we need to consider that -

Sorry if I sound like a crotchety old man - but the reality is that I've been talking to as many Camaro and Firebird and Mustang owners as humanly possible since the early 90s -- and sometimes my skin gets a bit thin when it's implied that we aren't listening.

Forgive me. Everything you see on this site that I post is MY OPINION and not necessarily that of the company for which I work. (and I'm sure there will be a few raised eyebrows after this post.............)

Crotchety....................ha ha you said crotch.

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by kbui

If Ford was ready (even though they are talking about releasing the '13 GT500 at about the same time as the ZL1) with the GT500....

Maybe a little off-topic, but if I recall correctly, Ford has always released the new model year of the Mustang in late-spring/early summer (at least for the last decade). I don't think they changed anything with the production date on account of the ZL1.

[v6sonoma]

I get annoyed by peoples comments too Scott. Yes it would be great if it were lighter, more powerful, and cheaper, but what planet do people live on? The Camaro is a great car that people love. The sales numbers prove it. I have no doubt that every ZL1 produced will be sold and that everyone who buys one will have a permagrin from ear to ear. When I see the same "trolls" posting the same comments on this and other sites I just ignore them now. As much as I want to duke it out with them it's not worth the time. Most of those idiots wouldn't consider a Camaro if it cost $10, weighed 20lbs. and had 1,000,000hp.

[kbui]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

You are certainly allowed your opinion.

What I would submit to you is that the world has changed. We live in a society that insists on rules and regulations. CAFE and Emissions standards along with safety standards are making it harder to offer inexpensive high performance as we saw in the 60s and very early 70s. You'd better brace yourself - because CAFE combined with the Law of Supply and Demand is surely going to price V8 engines higher and higher.

You don't like that and WE don't like that - but that doesn't matter to our elected officials in Washington.

I would beseech you to hold your judgement about the ZL1 until you have the opportunity to drive one or ride in one or witness firsthand what its capabilities are. It isn't your 'traditional' Camaro. While there are those (very few) that want crank windows and no air conditioning and the lightest possible car - there are many more who want a blindingly fast car - but that also offers a great ride - comfortable seats (for driving cross-country to the next Camaro5Fest ) -- with a level of refinement. Oh yes - and they want a 10,000 watt stereo that makes your ears bleed..........

As a manufacturer, we must look at the larger picture.....

(keep in mind that we're never finished - remember when we thought the LT1 was the cat's jammies???)

On a "personal" level - May I ask you to please stop with the "Pig" remarks. I promise not to call anyone in your family a "Pig" if you promise to stop calling my 'kids' Pigs...... K?

along those lines... this isn't 1969. We just announced that the Camaro gets a 5-star crash rating in every category. Every category. That isn't easy to engineer. That's also one of the reasons why the car weighs more than we'd like. Further, we - not you - have to hit those CAFE targets - so please understand that we are not being careless with the weight.

It's hard to promise that you'll "listen to the customer" knowing that no matter what you do - there will always be someone complaining about price or weight or *insert panic du jour here*...... The Camaro team does more to talk with its customers than any car or truck team out there....bar none..... That's a promise and a guarantee. And don't take my word for it - ask one of our Camaro Disciples.

If you happened to be around in January thru August of 2006, you may recall that there was great concern that GM would NOT build a Camaro that looked like the Camaro concept that we unveiled on January 9th of 2006. I personally talked to tens of thousands of people during those months - and ONE message came thru loud and clear: "BUILD IT AND IT HAD BETTER LOOK JUST LIKE THIS SILVER CONCEPT THAT I'M LOOKING AT!"

..........and so we did. Now - to "lose weight" - I'd love to hear your thoughts on how we do that. - I'd like indepth engineering analysis on how you would reduce the weight while keeping the larger picture in mind (so that we remain the top seller in the segment)

Should we cut it down to 90 percent of the current size? That doesn't work unless everyone who wants to drive it is 5 feet tall or less.

Make it out of aluminum and exotic materials? -- well -- you already told me that we priced the car too high.

change the style? Well - if we did, then some might accuse us of not listening to the customer.

Look - I don't mean to bash you - but before you bash us - please consider that there are many other opinions about this car that may be 180 degrees from where you view it.......

The team has been working 7 days a week since the early part of the new century........no, I'm not kidding. When we aren't working on the cars, we're out there talking to YOU - the enthusiast.

If I sound a bit 'cranky' -- it's probably because I am - look at some of the posts on here.

Now - tomorrow morning I'm going to walk into a convention center in Illinois with the ZL1 - and I'm going to once again listen to the voice of the customer - and I (and the team) will try to deliver a car that far exceeds the expectations of our enthusiasts - while also 'reaching' for those who many not have considered a Camaro in the past -- and we will have to make some hard, fast decisions.

Lastly - the Corvette may be in a league of its own - but it's still a Chevrolet and we still have Mustang owners who trade their pony in on a Corvette - so yes, we need to consider that -

Sorry if I sound like a crotchety old man - but the reality is that I've been talking to as many Camaro and Firebird and Mustang owners as humanly possible since the early 90s -- and sometimes my skin gets a bit thin when it's implied that we aren't listening.

Forgive me. Everything you see on this site that I post is MY OPINION and not necessarily that of the company for which I work. (and I'm sure there will be a few raised eyebrows after this post.............)

It's a great post! The problem with a lot of posters is that they still think designing and building a new car in the current environment is the same as the late 60's; if you ned more power, just dump another engine in it. Things are not as easy as it was back then. A design of a new car is an exercize in compromises and optimizations. If any of them just read up on some of the newer safety requirements, they would be floored of how a performance car such as a ZL1 can manage this kind of performance while achieving the crashworthiness along with a price tag.

Looking at how you have achieved great crash numbers, my guess is you might have some room to lighten up the car via thinner stampings and allocate reinforcements at the weak points or going with more hi-strength steels for braces and seams. Ultimately the vehicle's crash performance requirements dictate the stiffness and strength of its structure. I was one of the original users of LS-DYNA at GM in the late '80 for crash analyses, so I know these computer simulations are very cheap and provide a lot of useful info. I hope GM have (or should have) people running trade studies all the time to try to improve the structure's integrity while optimizing it's mass. Along with the overall structural mass reduction, lighter exhaust and seats can same a few pounds. While we are at it, provide an optional trackpack for the ZL1 and the SS for those of us looking for a little more "performance":

1) racing seats
2) headers (I do like the dual modes exhaust) and lighter exhausts
3) coilovers instead of Magnetic Ride
4) gears

BTW, any time you open yourself up for suggestions, you are going to get endless requests

[kbui]

Originally Posted by tooslow

Maybe a little off-topic, but if I recall correctly, Ford has always released the new model year of the Mustang in late-spring/early summer (at least for the last decade). I don't think they changed anything with the production date on account of the ZL1.

I am not directly in the industry anymore, but growing up and worked with the big 3 for over 20 years, mid to late summer always seem to be the time period where manufacturers have the change over periods, except for special releases. The '84 C4 Corvette from Chevy comes to mind...

[truth411]

Ok just FYI guys, the problem with the GT500 isn't power, but its ability to put that power to the ground. Also on even pavement there isn't much difference in performance between an IRS an a SRA, but the nurburghring is full of uneven pavement even on the long straights, the mustang would probably want to skip around too much. So that extra 100hp would be wasted throughout most the track imo.

[GearBangr]

Originally Posted by truth411

Ok just FYI guys, the problem with the GT500 isn't power, but its ability to put that power to the ground. Also on even pavement there isn't much difference in performance between an IRS an a SRA, but the nurburghring is full of uneven pavement even on the long straights, the mustang would probably want to skip around too much. So that extra 100hp would be wasted throughout most the track imo.

You know, I was just thinking about that too. And the last published times for the z06 and zr1 on the ring was only like 3-4 seconds apart. And that's with the same carbon brakes, mr suspension. Only major difference was the 130 hp difference. So that's somthing to think about.

[dave7378]

The only problem I have with the ZL1 is that due to allocations I can't get one until the 2013 model is ready for ordering.. I'm sure it will be worth the wait.

[kbui]

Originally Posted by Crowley

What an A$$hat.

I guess they should all be thanking the model T then for us even being here ..

Normal evolution of the GT500 would have taken it here anyways ..

He should have added .. sorry Chevy fans .. we dropped the ball again .. time to play catch-up.


Crowley

I am not sure on this one! Without the Camaro SS, Ford might still be running the 4.6L for as long as they can. Without the ZL1, I double doubt Ford would take the GT500 to the 'ring.....Without competitions, there is no way any company would waste their (profits) money to make great leaps. Small improvements, yes. I think Al was just trying to point out that competitions forced every makers improve or die and that's a good thing for all of us

As far as catching up, catch up to what? Chevy don't even have actual performance numbers from Ford to "catch up" to yet. You have seen people on this forum demanding ZL1's numbers and prices endlessly, while Ford wasn't asked to show me the numbers even though they are suppose to be out at around the same time.

What if I saw your 5th gen with 600rwhp and I am telling you that I am going to swap in an LS9, beef up my drive train, suspension and add a roll bar to take it to an autocross event to challenge you, you better play catch up . I am sure the first thing that would come to your mind ( just as to anyone else) is and show me. I am sure the GT500 is going to be a great car, but it would be foolish for Chevy just to change their design direction just because Ford is throwing out some numbers without real data to back it up. I don't know if you remember but doing the cold war, Reagan and his accouncement of the starwars weapon systems bankrupt the Soviets by forcing to play "catch up"....

[CynAgain]

Originally Posted by dave7378

The only problem I have with the ZL1 is that due to allocations I can't get one until the 2013 model is ready for ordering.. I'm sure it will be worth the wait.

[zero]

Originally Posted by Crowley

What an A$$hat.

I guess they should all be thanking the model T then for us even being here ..

Normal evolution of the GT500 would have taken it here anyways ..

He should have added .. sorry Chevy fans .. we dropped the ball again .. time to play catch-up.


Crowley

I think it`s sad after the reveal of the new GT500 the GM has to be so defensive in public about the ZL1. I think Ford got them good with only releasing hp and top speed. GM is on damage control now :(

[2012ZL1]

Originally Posted by Crowley

I guess they should all be thanking the model T then for us even being here ..

Normal evolution of the GT500 would have taken it here anyways ..

He should have added .. sorry Chevy fans .. we dropped the ball again .. time to play catch-up.


Crowley

Ford did not invent the automobile, nor was he the first to introduce it to the U.S
How does the fact Ford scrambles to announce a yet to exist improvement on the Shelby mean Chevy dropped the ball exactly?
Crawl back under your rock.

[lil_red_v6]

I like this part. Its so right. Eat it blue oval.

The GM engineer points out that that the Camaro ZL1 will be track-ready right out of the box while its Blue Oval rival will require additional performance packages to stand up to a road course.

[kbui]

Originally Posted by zero

I think it`s sad after the reveal of the new GT500 the GM has to be so defensive in public about the ZL1. I think Ford got them good with only releasing hp and top speed. GM is on damage control now :(

I don't know how anyone can read these various posts from GM and make a statement like this. If GM say nothing after a low blow from Ford (and that was a good play) people would say they are defeated. If they raise a challenge, then it's sad and they are on damage control??????:facepa lm: This is the same kind of crap I have been arguing with my old man for the last 35 years since my teenage years: If he make a statement accusing me of something and I stay quiet, then his statement is true. If I dispute his claim, then I am being disrespectul...I can careless which camp you are with, competition is GOOD. Forcing people to back up their claims is prudent. If you are going to make a claim, be prepare to back it up....Otherwise, I am going to release my latest claim: my ABM SS is the badest Camaro in the world, you all better shutup and try to catchup and please don't get so defensive about it....

I have just about enough for one day, time to enjoy my cars....