Kenne Bell vs Whipple

[WhoMadeWho]

Originally Posted by Adam@ST

Well thats just insane..per log the log, that line never moves. If thats real, its awesome. Thanks Adam@ST

It increases from from 109 to 115 over the pull, not much movement. That's one reason I triple checked the sensor, seemed a little odd. Whipple says they use the same IAT sensor as comes stock on the LS3/L99. I presume it's calibrated correctly, here is my IAT sensor calibration table:

[Adam@ST]

Heres a 2006 GTO with a custom Whipple kit I built. This was the smaller Maggie kit originally,and the unit that was locking up because we were trying to overdrive it to make more boost on the 402 cid engine. I custom fitted a 2.3 Whipple to the Maggie manifold, added a Bosch IC pump and ice box. 10lbs peak boost gave us a nice 700+rwhp. We were gonna put a 2.8LC KB on it, but the car keeps breaking diffs, axles, and trannys. Heres the sheets..Thanks Adam@ST

[Adam@ST]

Heres a Twins turbo STS 2010 Camaro @ 7lbs of boost..I was impressed with this car after we got all the boost leaks fixed. 10,000 miles of piping.Thanks Adam@ST

[Adam@ST]

Originally Posted by WhoMadeWho

It increases from from 109 to 115 over the pull, not much movement. That's one reason I triple checked the sensor, seemed a little odd. Whipple says they use the same IAT sensor as comes stock on the LS3/L99. I presume it's calibrated correctly, here is my IAT sensor calibration table:

Im in awe....no words.

[Adam@ST]

Heres a 2007 Maggie Silverado..11.5 lbs . Thanks Adam@ST

[Adam@ST]

Ok..Im tired, and I have a long busy day tomorrow. Thanks Adam@st

[mikepage0007]

nice logs guys..

[nfamous209]

Originally Posted by Adam@ST

Heres a 2006 GTO with a custom Whipple kit I built. This was the smaller Maggie kit originally,and the unit that was locking up because we were trying to overdrive it to make more boost on the 402 cid engine. I custom fitted a 2.3 Whipple to the Maggie manifold, added a Bosch IC pump and ice box. 10lbs peak boost gave us a nice 700+rwhp. We were gonna put a 2.8LC KB on it, but the car keeps breaking diffs, axles, and trannys. Heres the sheets..Thanks Adam@ST

got pics of this? really want to do a 402ci w/ the whipple 2.9 in the future, in my 02 Camaro. its a dream of mine.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Since everyone is posting data logs I will put my logs up, this is MJs car

KB 2.8LC on LS3 Cam Headers NO CATS 9 psi boost 4.10 gears.

You can see the IAT readings in Celsius to convert use C x 1.8+32 =F

Also pay attention to the time stamps

First one is a screen shot at 26 degrees C or 78.8 F at 3:54 sec

Second one is a screen shot at 59 degrees C or 138.2 F at 4:01 sec

Since Adam brought up the 4 inch tube and how restrictive it is

And since the question was avoided, Show me the Data that determines at what RWHP level the 4 inch tube becomes a restriction over the 4.5 inch tube?

At 675 RWHP or 775 Crank HP there is absolutely no difference.

And for the doubters, this is with 38,000 Cubic Feet of air Per Minute at 60 mph blowing right at the front of the car.

[Matt@KB]

I don't know why you paid $10000 or what issues you have with the kit. We've received a lot of positive response from our Camaro customers about the Air Temp Testing post. We weren't "defending" anything. If our kits didn't WORK and make great HP, we wouldn't be selling them. Truth is that the IAT temps we posted are accurate for our kits. Sorry, you have that opinion of the data we posted. I wrote the post to help everyone understand there ARE variables in testing.

There IS more to this IAT scenario. 125-140 degrees is not "bad." There are many factors involved. I merely attempted to point them out. Give me a call personally and I'd be happy to discuss and help you with any issues you might have with our kit.

Originally Posted by G200 Pilot

Well Mr. Matt, that sure is a long winded arrogant defense on behalf of a product that DOESN'T WORK!! Here's all I know: I gave KB upwards of $10,000 for a product that I'm embarrassed to give away. You think you're pulling the wool over our eyes with your "articulate rhetoric". I'm not buying it, in fact the more you try to defend and not listen, the more people you're
turning off. I consider you only an expert at "double talking". Stop it already!! If you're not going to fix the IAT issue, stop defending it. I would like to see a poll on what all of us think about your responses in the IAT issues and 4" tube. Mr. Jannetty, I don't know you personally but have seen your attempts at communicating intelligently AND I see it totally being ignored. It's too bad KB is just interested in Defending their product, right or wrong. Enough already with the dissertations....

I'll be the first one on the poll :sm2:

[Matt@KB]

According to our tests, engine temps DO affect IAT's. The higher engine heat actually transfers some of this higher temp to the air stream. And as pointed out in my post, the sensor location plays a role in IAT temp. Keep the sensor away from any engine metal as it's higher surface temp will skew the actual IAT temps.

Originally Posted by mikepage0007

what does engine and tranny temps have to do with your iats going into 18lbs of boost..my coolant temps run 172-176..has no bearing on iats..

[Matt@KB]

That was my post, not Matt's. Sorry, but I don't view any of your posts as "positive" for Kenne Bell or our customers. For your wallet perhaps, but not KB. My opinion is that being a Whipple Dealer and not being able to sell Kenne Bell does lead me to believe you may have an agenda and just might be biased, but I could be wrong. You have never called and asked us to help with your KB tuning issues. We would gladly send you the pipe, Honeycomb and tune to make the customer happy. That's always our #1 priority. Instead, you are set on promoting "your" 4" pipe and tune. I run all air flow tests at KB and the 4" does not meet our standards on this kit. If a 4" was better, I would have used it. And I NEVER said you were "less than a good tuner." As you stated, I don't even know you or your capabilities. Like it or not, believe it or not, the Honeycomb does work with the 4.5" pipe and solves the drive-ability issue for the manual AND automatic trans KB Camaros. Ted, what part of that do you not comprehend? Yes Ted, I'm Jim Bell. I own Kenne Bell. There IS a fix for it. It's a KB kit. We DO NOT want your help or advice. You have become involved with a couple of Kenne Bell customers who had drive-ability issues. We have continually offered to help you and the customers, who Matt is working with. You don't like the fact that KB won't lay down and tell our 3 customers they need to buy your pipe and re-tune. Not my problem.

Our data does not agree with your KB tests, particularly that 56 degree temp rise with the KB vs 9 degrees with Whipple. We only log a 15-20 degree rise as shown on the KB tests we posted. Our Dealers also don't agree with the 56 degrees either. More on this later.

Finley Customs, a KB Installer Tuner in Las Vegas / Henderson Nevada has a manual and auto Camaro they just did. Both work great with the 4.5" and Honeycomb. ST Motorsports has 6 Camaros. They all drive OK and make good power. You think I should recommend your 4" pipe and tune for all our customers even if they don't need it? Surely, you are joking.

Finally, what are you saying about the L99? I'm not avoiding anything. Once again Ted, we have the L99 tune handled. Our customers (new and old) DO NOT NEED YOUR EXPENSIVE TUNE AND 4" PIPE. Give it up. We DO NOT want the kind of help you offer. We prefer to work with our KB Dealers who cooperate with us and do what's best and less costly for the customers. Our 4.5" works fine and KB owners love the extra HP it produces over stock type or hot under-hood filters. And it doesn't cost any more. It's standard equipment on all kits.

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

I can't help but be truly disappointed in KBs response When My intentions are Purely Positive.

I have been told

I have an agenda

I am a less than good tuner

I am a Whipple dealer, When I carry all brands and solicited KB as well.

My HPtuner logs are inaccurate ???

Honey combs don't reduce cross section but then they do, but increase air
flow

There are no drive-ability issues with a 4.5 in maf pipe but then there is a fix
for it.

There is no IAT issue.

Our customers are Happy, but we as Tuners See, hear, and read complaints all the time.

Still waiting for a response on the L99 Transmission torque calculations being skewed by larger maf pipe, this one has been avoided like the plague.


Ted.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by Matt@KB

That was my post, not Matt's. Sorry, but I don't view any of your posts as "positive" for Kenne Bell or our customers. For your wallet perhaps, but not KB. My opinion is that being a Whipple Dealer and not being able to sell Kenne Bell does lead me to believe you may have an agenda and just might be biased, but I could be wrong. You have never called and asked us to help with your KB tuning issues. We would gladly send you the pipe, Honeycomb and tune to make the customer happy. That's always our #1 priority. Instead, you are set on promoting "your" 4" pipe and tune. I run all air flow tests at KB and the 4" does not meet our standards on this kit. If a 4" was better, I would have used it. And I NEVER said you were "less than a good tuner." As you stated, I don't even know you or your capabilities. Like it or not, believe it or not, the Honeycomb does work with the 4.5" pipe and solves the drive-ability issue for the manual AND automatic trans KB Camaros. Ted, what part of that do you not comprehend? Yes Ted, I'm Jim Bell. I own Kenne Bell. There IS a fix for it. It's a KB kit. We DO NOT want your help or advice. You have become involved with a couple of Kenne Bell customers who had drive-ability issues. We have continually offered to help you and the customers, who Matt is working with. You don't like the fact that KB won't lay down and tell our 3 customers they need to buy your pipe and re-tune. Not my problem.

Our data does not agree with your KB tests, particularly that 56 degree temp rise with the KB vs 9 degrees with Whipple. We only log a 15-20 degree rise as shown on the KB tests we posted. Our Dealers also don't agree with the 56 degrees either. More on this later.

Finley Customs, a KB Installer Tuner in Las Vegas / Henderson Nevada has a manual and auto Camaro they just did. Both work great with the 4.5" and Honeycomb. ST Motorsports has 6 Camaros. They all drive OK and make good power. You think I should recommend your 4" pipe and tune for all our customers even if they don't need it? Surely, you are joking.

Finally, what are you saying about the L99? I'm not avoiding anything. Once again Ted, we have the L99 tune handled. Our customers (new and old) DO NOT NEED YOUR EXPENSIVE TUNE AND 4" PIPE. Give it up. We DO NOT want the kind of help you offer. We prefer to work with our KB Dealers who cooperate with us and do what's best and less costly for the customers. Our 4.5" works fine and KB owners love the extra HP it produces over stock type or hot under-hood filters. And it doesn't cost any more. It's standard equipment on all kits.

I can Assure you as stated several times My Posts were Purely Positive, I in NO Way Ever Talked Down your Products, I merely offered supporting data to what everyone else is seeing and I Privately emailed it to you to evaluate, you never responded to me, I picked up my phone it still works and has continually for the last 25 years, My email works also, I respond to close to 100 per day.

I also Sell Vortech, Paxton, Edelbrock, Magnacharger, Procharger, Ford Racing, Jackson, and have sold Powerdyne, and many others that no longer exist, so I have no Agenda.

Instead you come on here and Bash me and my data which is taken directly from the car, I can't manipulate it.

Where did you Read I offer a 4 in MAF pipe and expensive tune?

In fact I give away 90% of my tunes with the purchase of Parts.

I only suggested you make one for your Kits under 1000 HP.

I did say if you won't make One I will so I did make 2 one of them nearly a year ago and one last week for FREE.

At What HP (I don't care RWHP or Crank HP) does a 4 inch pipe Become a restriction on a 3.5 inch Throttle body?????

I agree a Honey Comb works but so does a 4 inch pipe, the 4 inch pipe Restores TCM torque calculations.
You openly admitted your not a tuner but don't need any input from Real Tuners.

I am in the trenches and see all the Positive and negatives of all Products, If there is Something I can offer that helps a manufacturer I do, what you do with that info is up to you, I am reading you loud and clear.

I am not mad or upset, and Really Don't much Care What you do, It is your loss not mine.

Your reading the same responses from Potential or Would have been customers as I am right?

I Wish you Well!

[GMRULZ]

Originally Posted by Matt@KB

That was my post, not Matt's. Sorry, but I don't view any of your posts as "positive" for Kenne Bell or our customers. For your wallet perhaps, but not KB. My opinion is that being a Whipple Dealer and not being able to sell Kenne Bell does lead me to believe you may have an agenda and just might be biased, but I could be wrong. You have never called and asked us to help with your KB tuning issues. We would gladly send you the pipe, Honeycomb and tune to make the customer happy. That's always our #1 priority. Instead, you are set on promoting "your" 4" pipe and tune. I run all air flow tests at KB and the 4" does not meet our standards on this kit. If a 4" was better, I would have used it. And I NEVER said you were "less than a good tuner." As you stated, I don't even know you or your capabilities. Like it or not, believe it or not, the Honeycomb does work with the 4.5" pipe and solves the drive-ability issue for the manual AND automatic trans KB Camaros. Ted, what part of that do you not comprehend? Yes Ted, I'm Jim Bell. I own Kenne Bell. There IS a fix for it. It's a KB kit. We DO NOT want your help or advice. You have become involved with a couple of Kenne Bell customers who had drive-ability issues. We have continually offered to help you and the customers, who Matt is working with. You don't like the fact that KB won't lay down and tell our 3 customers they need to buy your pipe and re-tune. Not my problem.

Our data does not agree with your KB tests, particularly that 56 degree temp rise with the KB vs 9 degrees with Whipple. We only log a 15-20 degree rise as shown on the KB tests we posted. Our Dealers also don't agree with the 56 degrees either. More on this later.

Finley Customs, a KB Installer Tuner in Las Vegas / Henderson Nevada has a manual and auto Camaro they just did. Both work great with the 4.5" and Honeycomb. ST Motorsports has 6 Camaros. They all drive OK and make good power. You think I should recommend your 4" pipe and tune for all our customers even if they don't need it? Surely, you are joking.

Finally, what are you saying about the L99? I'm not avoiding anything. Once again Ted, we have the L99 tune handled. Our customers (new and old) DO NOT NEED YOUR EXPENSIVE TUNE AND 4" PIPE. Give it up. We DO NOT want the kind of help you offer. We prefer to work with our KB Dealers who cooperate with us and do what's best and less costly for the customers. Our 4.5" works fine and KB owners love the extra HP it produces over stock type or hot under-hood filters. And it doesn't cost any more. It's standard equipment on all kits.

Wow... Not sure about others, but I`m just speechless...