Mace cams ordered.

[simt3k]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Glide

1.) Think MACEs original pricing was $1500 AU, some caught a discount due to the extra costs involved for being first to do this. PM Steve at MACE_ENG.
2.) Cams only should more than 30, add heads and I think it will be a really good number.
3.) No GC with the big cams.

Ok, Can FI be used with these cams?

[DarkneSS]

So with full bolt ons + a tune + Cams + heads + ported manifold work, we may actually be able to achieve 350 whp? Or around that? Those are stock SS numbers no?

[Yellow_Glide]

Unknown - so far the 5 people who have ordered these are all NA builds. I would suggest talking to Steve, he'll have far more insight on FI compatibility since he designed them.

[Yellow_Glide]

Originally Posted by DarkneSS

So with full bolt ons + a tune + Cams + heads + ported manifold work, we may actually be able to achieve 350 whp? Or around that? Those are stock SS numbers no?

We'll know soon enough. I've got everything except an IM, but that will be added with the heads.

[simt3k]

when will the heads be available?

[DarkneSS]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Glide

We'll know soon enough. I've got everything except an IM, but that will be added with the heads.

Awesome man. Personally I'd prefer an NA build than FI. Just seems more solid and reliable, as well as more rare and sneaky (hehe). And if it can make as much power as a stock SS or a little more, then that is sick.

[simt3k]

Originally Posted by SC2150

Heads are available now. Were shipping them as fast as we can finish them....need more cores.

Were trying to get with Vince when on the dyno so thats are hold up right now. Have sent some driving logs so hope next Tue to make more progress. Anxious to get this stage done so we can move on the the heads. The cams are great and Mace has done a great job on these.

How much for the heads? and are there any gains with them?

I am interested in purchasing new cams, and ported heads when they are available.

[Jarp]

Tracy will you ship O/S with the heads? Is good see this build come together and done so in such a manner that gains can be directly attributed to each component...nice work. I'm also glad that you guys are taking the time to get the tune/calibration finely sorted as this will give the rest of us an excellent base tune...cheers.


Yellow-Glide is your car manual or auto? Has Tracy or Mat mentioned any brake issues at idle since cam fit? If so has the tune rectified?

[KMPrenger]

First off about the AFR. We all know the V6 likes to run a bit on the rich side....its normal. Pretty sure mid to high 11s is where you want to be at with this engine. If the current tune is already in the 11s, then it seems pretty damn close to me as is. Maybe a little tweaking is needed, but sounds pretty good. Don't think it needs to be in the mid to high 12s, but maybe my memory is failing me lol. Wish scrming or someone would confirm.

Originally Posted by Yellow_Glide

...KM - I do plan on having another session after I get back to Texas but will try to closely match conditions so it may be later in the year before that happens.

So, my thought on the numbers -

My dyno run was with an Injen long tube and MRT v2.0 and pulled 254 whp which is 18.6% loss (254 / 312 = 81.4 or 18.5% loss). Tracy's dyno showed 256 whp which is 18% loss (256 / 312 = 82.05 OR 18% loss) with the TB, 3/8" iceolator, headers and tune.

However, there are several differences to note:
- air temp - 76* my run, high 80s* Tracy's run
- altitude - 612 feet Austin, 30 feet Palmetto
- Humidity - 75% Austin, high 80s% in Palmetto

My summation is there is approximately (I'm guessing) a 30whp difference between the two dynos. This is my thinking on measuring the results.

1) Cam Only Baseline established - 256whp
2) Cam only / tune final run - will yield the Cam only numbers (CO)
3) CO minus original baseline = cam only net gain (CON)
4) Heads / Intake / tune final run - will yield CAM / Head numbers (CH)
5) CH minus original baseline = cam / head net gain (CHN)

The measurement which has not / will not change is the drivetrain loss: averaged out it's 18.25% loss. Once the final numbers come from the dyno, add 18.25% and that should be a good estimate of crank horsepower.

Once I get back to Texas I can run on the original dyno will run 3 passes and average. From the numbers will be able to approximate what the bolt ons added and what the Cams / Heads added from the new totals and my original baseline. ...

I agree that based on the info from your original dyno that it was reading out at around a 18.xx% loss. Your right, its a good idea that when you eventually dyno again at home that you could use this percentage to figure out your crank HP. I also agree with you that it seems tracy's dyno (due to whatever number of reasons) seemed to dyno about 20 to 30 HP less than the one you did your original run on because in all honesty your mods should have netted you at least 20 or more rwhp. So his dyno was showing considerably more than 18% loss when you consider where your crank HP should have been (well north of the stock 312).

I firmly believe in normal conditions your rwhp output should be somewhere in the 270 to 280 with all your mods before cams. (probably what it would have been on your original dyno) and after cams should be 300+. With ported heads..hopefully 310 to 320 or more.

If Tracy dynos your car this week and it ends up being 290rwhp with just the cams(just throwing a random number out there) that would be great as your base was just 256. Whats not cool is that we already have some dynos with full bolt ons in the 280 to 290 range. Thats why I guess I really can't wait to see you get it back on the original dyno again. I understand the dyno is just a tool and yadda yadda yadda...but after all this hard work we deserve to see that over 300rwhp dyno! lol

Originally Posted by DarkneSS

So with full bolt ons + a tune + Cams + heads + ported manifold work, we may actually be able to achieve 350 whp? Or around that? Those are stock SS numbers no?

L99 SS typically dyno around 320 or so, so if this car were to hit that it would be pretty sweet. LS3 usually 350 to 360 rwhp. I don't see us getting there, but lets wait and see.

Originally Posted by Jarp

Tracy will you ship O/S with the heads? Is good see this build come together and done so in such a manner that gains can be directly attributed to each component...nice work. I'm also glad that you guys are taking the time to get the tune/calibration finely sorted as this will give the rest of us an excellent base tune...cheers.

Agree. The information we are getting from this build process is pretty cool stuff.

[scrming]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

First off about the AFR. We all know the V6 likes to run a bit on the rich side....its normal. Pretty sure mid to high 11s is where you want to be at with this engine. If the current tune is already in the 11s, then it seems pretty damn close to me as is. Maybe a little tweaking is needed, but sounds pretty good. Don't think it needs to be in the mid to high 12s, but maybe my memory is failing me lol. Wish scrming or someone would confirm.

We never monitored my AF when we did the dyno pulls but I want to say that those that did were in the 11's... maybe very low 12s... Everyone assumed it was running way to rich, but seem that any attempt to lean it out resulted in LESS power... at least that's how I remember it...

Found this! Look at the A/Fs at 7000 RPM!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...mc&hl=en#gid=0

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by scrming

We never monitored my AF when we did the dyno pulls but I want to say that those that did were in the 11's... maybe very low 12s... Everyone assumed it was running way to rich, but seem that any attempt to lean it out resulted in LESS power... at least that's how I remember it...

Found this! Look at the A/Fs at 7000 RPM!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...mc&hl=en#gid=0

...ask and you shall receive.

[Yellow_Glide]

Well put KM. It's all about the net gains. Whether the final number is 275 or 375 - it doesn't matter since it's just a number. Since this is the beginning of a long process - next step will be the tranny or bottom end. Tranny swaps, Stroker kits, Superchargers - can't wait to see where this leads.

I may have a new tag line "that's right, SIX tubes on those headers"

[Yellow_Glide]

Originally Posted by scrming

We never monitored my AF when we did the dyno pulls but I want to say that those that did were in the 11's... maybe very low 12s... Everyone assumed it was running way to rich, but seem that any attempt to lean it out resulted in LESS power... at least that's how I remember it...

Found this! Look at the A/Fs at 7000 RPM!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...mc&hl=en#gid=0

Scrming - thanks for posting - mid 11s - tunes close, just needs a few tweaks.

[BSR-1]

As kind of a side note:
I remember Vince telling me that he can NOT adjust fueling at anything except full throttle.
Part throttle (where you'll be 98% of time) is not adjustable.