Alignment Help Thread

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by camaro500

Justice Pete, thank you so much for all the great information and products you have provided over this forum. It is greatly appreciated!

Thank you for the kind words. You made my day!

[Johnnyrod]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

If the toe is pulled way in, it could cause the tire to rub.
If the camber is pulled way in, it could cause the tire to rub.
Tires of the same size are not exactly the same size mfg to mfg. Some are larger and some are smaller.

While many on Camaro5 run 315s in the rear, I do not recommend them. They are going to rub when the truck is loaded or there are four people in the car and you hit a bump. Most will tell you they have this set up and the tire do not rub. They are right a good portion of thee time, but other times they will rub.

Why not drop down to a 305?

Thanks for the quick response. I gotta go in on Monday at a shop that are used to custom camber and toe. If it still rubs I will look into the 305 like you stated, can you run any 305 on a 20x11 rim? thanks you

[Firefighter]

Pete do you know of a good suspension shop in the Tampa area?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Firefighter

Pete do you know of a good suspension shop in the Tampa area?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Sure, JPSS in Martinsville, VA

There are so few and I don't know of one near you.

[Johnnyrod]

Just a little update. So I decided to install one wheel in my driveway to see. dont seem to rub, I dunno what they were talking about. I guess they got scared after they chipped a rim lol





rear camber you gave me would it be -0.50
Thanks again for you help

[Burt]

Alright Pete, I've got a question for you: Once the toe is set, how do you adjust the steering wheel so that it's centered when the wheels are pointed straight ahead? I forgot to ask last time I was at the shop, but once the alignment was about done the tech had me hold center the wheel while he did...something to align the front wheels. Was he adjusting the tie rod ends? I would think that you'd alter your toe by adjusting them, but that's why I'm here, asking the dumb questions)

Second question, I can reason how to measure camber and toe (total toe, at least) since camber can be measured at each corner independently, and total toe just requires doing both sides of one end at once, but for a diy modifier trying to do their own alignment at home, is there a good way to check steering angle and individual toe without resorting to expensive/elaborate equipment? I can do the math, but I'm short on background. Oh, and lastly, I'm having a hard time swallowing this, from another site:

"Remember, toe is actually measured from the center of the wheel, so double any number you have to get exact toe(example: 1⁄16 on the sticks equals 1⁄8 at the spindle."

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Burt

Second question, I can reason how to measure camber and toe (total toe, at least) since camber can be measured at each corner independently, and total toe just requires doing both sides of one end at once, but for a diy modifier trying to do their own alignment at home, is there a good way to check steering angle and individual toe without resorting to expensive/elaborate equipment? I can do the math, but I'm short on background.

Setting a pair of parallel strings, one on each side of the car and a couple of inches or so away from the wheels and at hub height, will allow you to measure individual toe. It's best to measure from the wheel flanges unless it's known to be bent/damaged, and a scale graduated to 0.01" is what you'll want to measure with. Tires are not uniformly smooth on their sidewalls, frequently making it damn near impossible to get meaningful measurements that way. Setting the strings to be parallel takes longer than getting the toe measurements once you've got them parallel.

Oh, and lastly, I'm having a hard time swallowing this, from another site:

"Remember, toe is actually measured from the center of the wheel, so double any number you have to get exact toe(example: 1⁄16 on the sticks equals 1⁄8 at the spindle."

Sidestepping whatever that other site is trying to say, it's perhaps easier to work with toe as an angle rather than inches or other linear measurement. Most any "scientific" calculator will do the trig side of the math for you.

Been DIY'ing my own alignments for ... a few years.


Norm

[Burt]

thanks Norm, I figured it would be something like that, now I just need to make up some mounts to hold the string.

I'm not sure what they were getting at either, I back calculated total toe, which you could use it to set, but if your total toe was off, you'd be screwed. String method it is.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Burt

Alright Pete, I've got a question for you: Once the toe is set, how do you adjust the steering wheel so that it's centered when the wheels are pointed straight ahead? I forgot to ask last time I was at the shop, but once the alignment was about done the tech had me hold center the wheel while he did...something to align the front wheels. Was he adjusting the tie rod ends? I would think that you'd alter your toe by adjusting them, but that's why I'm here, asking the dumb questions)

He was adjusting the tie rods (think toe rods) as you suspected.

Norm, why not toe plates and grease plates?

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Burt

thanks Norm, I figured it would be something like that, now I just need to make up some mounts to hold the string.

Two sets of jackstands works quite well. The heavy ones are better, but if you've got any heavy odds and ends laying around that can be used to weight down the cheap kind, that works too.

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Norm, why not toe plates and grease plates?

Probably because when I started doing this stuff myself I already had the jackstands, a ball of string, and a 6" scale graduated to 0.01". Theoretically, that's accuracy to better than ±0.05° even on 15" wheels. Using strings was outlined in my 1st Edition copy of Fred Puhn's book (1976). When you measure off the wheel, any effects from Mz resistance at the contact patch to the small steering that results from toe adjustment disappear into tire sidewall distortions and can be ignored. If there's measurable play anywhere else, your efforts at setting toe are no better than a WAG no matter how you're measuring it.

At one point I was going to rig up something involving a pair of lasers, the kind that shoot a line rather than a dot, which would set up much quicker if perhaps at some loss of accuracy.




snuck this in before the 8AM crash . . .Hah!

Norm

[smok3d]

Justice Pete I just wanted to stop back by and say thank you for the information and help that you posted.

I dropped my car off at another auto shop yesterday that was a bit further out from me and gave them all your information. I picked the car up and with the new parts and the alignment done properly the car feels awesome.

I appreciate the help and information! I am glad we have such resourceful knowledge on these forums!

[WHAMMO]

Need advice for a new alignment. Car is driven agressively on the streets and I want to autox 5-10 times this summer and 1-2 drag strip trip. My tires always wear out quickly on the outside only, no tracking! Car is a boltons 1LE with stock suspension. Wheel hop is there..

Thanks!

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by smok3d

Justice Pete I just wanted to stop back by and say thank you for the information and help that you posted.

I dropped my car off at another auto shop yesterday that was a bit further out from me and gave them all your information. I picked the car up and with the new parts and the alignment done properly the car feels awesome.

I appreciate the help and information! I am glad we have such resourceful knowledge on these forums!

Originally Posted by WHAMMO

Need advice for a new alignment. Car is driven agressively on the streets and I want to autox 5-10 times this summer and 1-2 drag strip trip. My tires always wear out quickly on the outside only, no tracking! Car is a boltons 1LE with stock suspension. Wheel hop is there..

Thanks!

It would be great to know what your current alignment specs are. In general, a good all round setup starts here.

Front Camber -1.00
Front Toe 0.00
Rear Camber -050
Rear Toe IN 0.12
Total Rear Toe IN 0.24

[WHAMMO]

Thanks a lot Pete!! My current alignment is stock 13' 1LE...