2014 Camaro Z/28 pricing announced at $75,000

[Novie LE]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

It may 'stand' but it means absolutely nothing if you don't know all of the facts..

So take a ls3 and everything associated with out out of a 1le camaro. You got a high 20k shell so its going to cost 25-30k to drop a ls7 in it per car?

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

It may 'stand' but it means absolutely nothing if you don't know all of the facts..

Burn!

[mlee]

Originally Posted by matt55

Thank you for taking time out of your day to talk down to me for asking a valid question.
So <$7000 for motor and > $13000 per car for electronic's and testing (to come up with a $55-60k ls7 1le. )
I still don't get it .

Yeah... the numbers that "you" throw out don't make sense.

Originally Posted by motorhead

Burn!

That was pretty good..

[mkorgan]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

When we are finished with the car!!!!!

(sorry - but think about it - if we were done and had them - don't you think we'd have shared them? ...)

FBODFATHER - i did not mean any disrespect. I am one of your biggest fans but i think this point is huge, at least to me. The fact that Chevy is still fine tuning the car is a very big deal. Call me ignorant but i figured once the ring testing was done, the car was locked in and the engineers moved on to the next project. To hear you now, the run was just the beginning of the tuning part of the Z/28, not the end. To which i say WOW. To think that the car ran in the '31's and GM is still working to get more out of it speaks volumes and is something i honestly missed or did not understand. Thanks for the clarification and i can't wait to see these REAL numbers. Awesome.

[Novie LE]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Burn!

That rivals lockdowns helpful post. Thanks, appreciated by all.

[2SSRS@Gen5diy]

Originally Posted by Novie LE

I don't care about the z28. I care about sticking a ls7 in a 1le and the price of doing that.

Go and get a LS7 and add it to your 1LE, we have lots of forum venders that can do that for you,let us know if they can do it for the price of the motor and install only.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by Novie LE

What has to be created? Its already made. I see a harness and mounts to male this work as everything else is already out on the vette.

Since you've missed a few points from elsewhere on this site, I'll share some valid, truthful information, believe it or not Mr. Ripley:

1) "I've read on the other auto forums, "I'd rather of had a 1LE with a couple thousand extra fro the LS7. Well as I've tried to point out, the LS7 automatically makes the 1LE a $60,000 car. More money than a ZL1 with less performance and slower around the track. That was never the point of this car when they decided to make the ZL1 the ZL1 and not the Z/28. It had to be more, better, faster".

2) "Volume is the key differentiator even between the ZL1.

1,500 (assumed) vs. 5,000 including a convertible.

Just look at any new part on the car that isn't on any other car. That part requires tooling and fixtures or "capital expense" to produce.

If GM simply invested in tools for parts and tools at Oshawa to build the Z/28 in a high quality fashion let's just guess a number of $15,000,000. That would be $10,000 per Z/28 to simply recover that investment. Now I have no idea how much GM invested in the Camaro Z/28. Maybe it was a lot less, could have been more. But it wasn't zero.

Low volumes destroy business cases and low volumes make it harder to put a product through an assembly plant.

Just imagine a car that is 2% of production. That means for very 100 cars that go by 2 get something unique or special. That means you have to have 2 special unique parts at line side for the operator to install on the car. You have to have line space to have those parts available, you have to have a fork truck driver bring those parts to the line, you have to have in some cases special training for the unique parts. An efficiently laid out plant doesn't have extra space for this. On and on it goes and it all can cost money.

How about this simple one. On a part that goes on every car, the supplier can run the tools every day. What do you think happens on a part that supplier makes 6 per day? Do you think the supplier sets up the tool and makes 6 parts and stops? For the most part there are set up costs associated with the tools. I'm sure we have enough members on here that have small businesses that can elaborate. A supplier may simply run the years worth of parts. But then you have box them up and store them. GM doesn't accept and store a years worth of parts. No modern OEM does that. They accept parts as needed. But either you are paying for way more set up on the tools for low volume or you are paying way more to store parts in a warehouse someplace. Either way, it's more cost than on a "normal" part.

Again, these are all simply generalities and I have no idea what GM did or didn't do. But low volumes matter and they matter a lot.

So no, it might not make sense when you say $75,000 for a Z/28. That number in and of itself is quite daunting. But that is also less delivery of $750 or whatever a Camaro has and another $2,000 or whatever GG Tax might be and you are around $72,500 for the car.

Even if you use the ZL1 for the starting point, keep in mind the LSA is a mass produced engine, the LS7 is not. There is a premium. The CC brakes, another premium. Those 2 alone are at least a $10,000 increase over a ZL1. A ZL1 is $58,000 so add a simple 10 on top of that and you are at $68,000. Grasp the impact of the much lower volumes and your in the low 70's. It's pretty simple.

Look, I'd love one in my garage. The risk here was always that making the car this track focused would price it out of most peoples budget. It did mine for a non DD. And I'm not intending to start going to track days (although that would be fun). So I think most people are just crazy that it can't be a reality for them and they are questioning the cost. They want it to be a 1LE with a small $2500 engine option. I would frankly have bought a 1LE with an LS7 option and been happy of it even with a hug premium. That isn't reality. Or they want a Z/28 without the special parts and without the CC brakes. Well that's a car that is about as fast around the track as a ZL1 and having 2 cars in the showroom that do the same thing is not good business. Volumes for the ZL1 would simply drop.

The car is priced in a way to add value to the brand, add show room traffic, but not cannibalize many ZL1 or Corvette sales. It was contented and priced for a very specific buyer and we (including me) are simply having to come to the reality that we weren't it".

These quotes are courtesy of our former "inside man", a person fbodfather is also referring to as a "knowledgeable source".

Another paraphrased comment has to do with development costs: "Take 20 engineers, working for two full years, and you have 40 man-years of payroll to deal with BEFORE parts prototyping/production costs and such. And 40 man-years, for such an ambitious project, is probably a LOW figure..."

It is NOT Y minus X, and it is NOT pulling parts from the shelf and throwing them on the car and saying, "close enough!"
BTW, the LS7 used in the Z/28 is NOT the same unit used in the C6 Vette, either...even it underwent "changes", geared towards its heavier environment...

[matt55]

Originally Posted by mlee

Yeah... the numbers that "you" throw out don't make sense.



That was pretty good..

1le start under $40000
+ ls7 $14000(retail per summit racing)
=$54000

I just don't see the extra $1000-$6000 to come up with a ls7/1le @$55000-$60000
And I forgot the take away the ls3 price ( $7799 @summit )

[Novie LE]

I stopped reading at a ls7 makes a 1le a 60k car. So now it takes 30 plus k to put a ls7 into a 1le? Just a simple yes or no will suffice.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by Novie LE

I stopped reading at a ls7 makes a 1le a 60k car. So now it takes 30 plus k to put a ls7 into a 1le? Just a simple yes or no will suffice.

No, the proper number for your example, here, is $20K. Keep reading...you've come this far...

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by matt55

1le start under $40000
+ ls7 $14000(retail per summit racing)
=$44000

I just don't see the extra $11000-$16000 to come up with a ls7/1le @$55000-$60000
And I forgot the take away the ls3 price ( $7799 @summit )

When you order an option that replaces a standard (no-charge) feature, do you think they deduct the cost of that no-charge feature? Not just GM but EVERYONE?

[HDRDTD]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

Now - I'm going downstairs to complete more paperwork for Monday morning (that assumes I don't freeze to death first! )

And assumes you'll be able to get out of your driveway in the morning.

[Novie LE]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

No, the proper number for your example, here, is $20K. Keep reading...you've come this far...

Another useful post. You proud of yourself? So what happens with all the parts currently on the 1le? Does gm give you the parts cause they arnt giving you the money?

[LOWDOWN]

I'll give you a former real world example (former, so it doesn't get me in deep doo-doo with some folks):

The late, lamented Colorado and canyon were available in their later years with a V8 5.3 option. Cost quite a few dollars extra. I'm told the inline 5-cylinder engine that was priced well-below the 5.3 actually cost more to produce than the 5.3. why? Volume (1,000,000s of 5.3s out there), and architecture (OHC 3.7 vs. OHV 5.3).

Believable? Yes.

"Fair"? apparently, as they sold quite a few 5.3s in those trucks...more than they're able to build as 7.0 Gen-5 Z/28s...