2014 Camaro Z/28 pricing announced at $75,000

[Z/284ever]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

Yup! It was 1996-- and frankly, you and a few others are who we dedicate this "Z/28" to -- we heard you loud and clear - but a funny thing happened on the way to bankruptcy.......we're now clear of that and we're able to bring you the car of your dreams....BUT - we were told in no uncertain terms that we could not LOSE money on the car - thus the $75K pricetag - which is stilll a bargain (some of us know what the internal costs are!)

Thanks Scott, appreciate it. So glad that Mark Reuss, Al O. and everyone one else involved, made this Z/28 happen. This car is undoubtedly the baddest of the bad -

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by Novie LE

Read again. So my 40k 1le still has a power plant in it? Or does the power plant get removed with zero money taken off. A little common sense and basic math goes a long way.

...and your used 6.2 is now worth about $3,500 on the open market...call Craig and have it put on his List...

Or, better yet, try this: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=149

[Novie LE]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

...and your used 6.2 is now worth about $3,500 on the open market...call Craig and have it put on his List...

Read please just read. I am talking about a gm factory 1le with a ls7 not a side project. For gm to change NOTHING on the 1le except for the ls3 to ls7 swap was said to be a 60k car. I am questioning how in the world switching to a ls7 costs 30k plus. Keep inimd everything ls3 related would be out and never installed.

[Bad@ssCamaro]

Originally Posted by JAZ

Lowdown, Joe, Zfat... You are more than welcome to debate this here... Unless you don't have an argument. then I could see why you would want to avoid thePill. Please see the screen captures of the rulebooks in the beginning of this thread. It clearly states the requirements that prohibit the z28 from being sanctioned by Chevrolet. $75,000 for a recreational track car is stupid, plain and simple. Anyone still talking about this car in any seriousness is... not trying to sound mean but, they are stupid after what is known about the car. Anyone who thinks $75,000 for a recreational track car needs to get ahold of themselves. Your better off getting an SS so at least you can move on to Regional's once you get the experience. The z28 will not allow you to progress past the infant stage.


LOL at the Rookie that shows up with a $75,000 recreation track car with the intentions of blowing everyone away during your private hot laps.

Regardless, enough making fun of you without you being here. I will debate and keep it respectful and clean unless you decide not to do the same.

This has so much fail, you're drinking thePill Kool-Aid. There are plenty of people that have recreational track cars that are well over 75K. Go spread your garbage someplace else.

[macwest]

I am excited about a LS7. currently I am on fence with z28. based on how tunes go here in cali with smog I may do a mix and match with a z28 and my current 5th gen. I just do not like the new taillights. Too much like a Honda

[FINALLYSATISFIED]

Originally Posted by 6910

Thanks for the info Scott.. Is it alarming to GM that Camaro enthusiasts are not excited or even see anyway to drive a Z/28? Someone suggested on our club page that some of the more extreme options be made options so that we could still enjoy the Z/28 mystic. I would pay 50-60K for 1LE suspension and wheels + an LS7. Myself and most every Camaro enthusiast I've heard from do not appreciate the Z/28 badge being relagated to a museum piece. I don't recall such an outcry from such an extremly loyal customer base since the GTO fans balked out the new GTO.

$75,000 for a Camaro. I repeat $75,000 for a CAMARO. That's insane. Chevrolet actually made this. Sorry but those who think this is ok or acceptable is just ignorant to the fact it's overpriced. I could see if atleast the interior was improved with better materials which they could have done. Looks like I'll wait now for the 6th Gen...

[macwest]

Originally Posted by FINALLYSATISFIED

$75,000 for a Camaro. I repeat $75,000 for a CAMARO. That's insane. Chevrolet actually made this. Sorry but those who think this is ok or acceptable is just ignorant to the fact it's overpriced.

Everything seems overpriced today .Market will show if price is right. If they sit then price will fall. its all if you are willing to take a chance and wait.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by Novie LE

Read please just read. I am talking about a gm factory 1le with a ls7 not a side project. For gm to change NOTHING on the 1le except for the ls3 to ls7 swap was said to be a 60k car. I am questioning how in the world switching to a ls7 costs 30k plus. Keep inimd everything ls3 related would be out and never installed.

I'm afraid you've finally discovered my employment status. I'm an unemployed doctor...with no more patience (did I spell that right?)...

Go back one page and read what I posted about "substitution"...



"Goodnight Dick"...from Laugh-In

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by FINALLYSATISFIED

$75,000 for a Camaro. I repeat $75,000 for a CAMARO. That's insane. Chevrolet actually made this. Sorry but those who think this is ok or acceptable is just ignorant to the fact it's overpriced.

R U FINALLY SATISFIED?

[Novie LE]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

I'm afraid you've finally discovered my employment status. I'm an unemployed doctor...with no more patience (did I spell that right?)...

Go back one page and read what I posted about "substitution"...



"Goodnight Dick"...from Laugh-In

Useless post. Why can't you just answer it? Simple yes or no. Good night Dick? You are adorable when you make a fool of yourself.

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by Novie LE

Useless post. Why can't you just answer it? Simple yes or no.

Everyone is trying to explain to you why it would be so expensive..... you are not going to get a exact dollar amount because GM hasn't disclosed said info.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by Novie LE

Useless post. Why can't you just answer it? Simple yes or no. Good night Dick? You are adorable when you make a fool of yourself.

Please forgive me...it's the company I keep...

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Since you've missed a few points from elsewhere on this site, I'll share some valid, truthful information, believe it or not Mr. Ripley:

1) "I've read on the other auto forums, "I'd rather of had a 1LE with a couple thousand extra fro the LS7. Well as I've tried to point out, the LS7 automatically makes the 1LE a $60,000 car. More money than a ZL1 with less performance and slower around the track. That was never the point of this car when they decided to make the ZL1 the ZL1 and not the Z/28. It had to be more, better, faster".

2) "Volume is the key differentiator even between the ZL1.

1,500 (assumed) vs. 5,000 including a convertible.

Just look at any new part on the car that isn't on any other car. That part requires tooling and fixtures or "capital expense" to produce.

If GM simply invested in tools for parts and tools at Oshawa to build the Z/28 in a high quality fashion let's just guess a number of $15,000,000. That would be $10,000 per Z/28 to simply recover that investment. Now I have no idea how much GM invested in the Camaro Z/28. Maybe it was a lot less, could have been more. But it wasn't zero.

Low volumes destroy business cases and low volumes make it harder to put a product through an assembly plant.

Just imagine a car that is 2% of production. That means for very 100 cars that go by 2 get something unique or special. That means you have to have 2 special unique parts at line side for the operator to install on the car. You have to have line space to have those parts available, you have to have a fork truck driver bring those parts to the line, you have to have in some cases special training for the unique parts. An efficiently laid out plant doesn't have extra space for this. On and on it goes and it all can cost money.

How about this simple one. On a part that goes on every car, the supplier can run the tools every day. What do you think happens on a part that supplier makes 6 per day? Do you think the supplier sets up the tool and makes 6 parts and stops? For the most part there are set up costs associated with the tools. I'm sure we have enough members on here that have small businesses that can elaborate. A supplier may simply run the years worth of parts. But then you have box them up and store them. GM doesn't accept and store a years worth of parts. No modern OEM does that. They accept parts as needed. But either you are paying for way more set up on the tools for low volume or you are paying way more to store parts in a warehouse someplace. Either way, it's more cost than on a "normal" part.

Again, these are all simply generalities and I have no idea what GM did or didn't do. But low volumes matter and they matter a lot.

So no, it might not make sense when you say $75,000 for a Z/28. That number in and of itself is quite daunting. But that is also less delivery of $750 or whatever a Camaro has and another $2,000 or whatever GG Tax might be and you are around $72,500 for the car.

Even if you use the ZL1 for the starting point, keep in mind the LSA is a mass produced engine, the LS7 is not. There is a premium. The CC brakes, another premium. Those 2 alone are at least a $10,000 increase over a ZL1. A ZL1 is $58,000 so add a simple 10 on top of that and you are at $68,000. Grasp the impact of the much lower volumes and your in the low 70's. It's pretty simple.

Look, I'd love one in my garage. The risk here was always that making the car this track focused would price it out of most peoples budget. It did mine for a non DD. And I'm not intending to start going to track days (although that would be fun). So I think most people are just crazy that it can't be a reality for them and they are questioning the cost. They want it to be a 1LE with a small $2500 engine option. I would frankly have bought a 1LE with an LS7 option and been happy of it even with a hug premium. That isn't reality. Or they want a Z/28 without the special parts and without the CC brakes. Well that's a car that is about as fast around the track as a ZL1 and having 2 cars in the showroom that do the same thing is not good business. Volumes for the ZL1 would simply drop.

The car is priced in a way to add value to the brand, add show room traffic, but not cannibalize many ZL1 or Corvette sales. It was contented and priced for a very specific buyer and we (including me) are simply having to come to the reality that we weren't it".

These quotes are courtesy of our former "inside man", a person fbodfather is also referring to as a "knowledgeable source".

Another paraphrased comment has to do with development costs: "Take 20 engineers, working for two full years, and you have 40 man-years of payroll to deal with BEFORE parts prototyping/production costs and such. And 40 man-years, for such an ambitious project, is probably a LOW figure..."

It is NOT Y minus X, and it is NOT pulling parts from the shelf and throwing them on the car and saying, "close enough!"
BTW, the LS7 used in the Z/28 is NOT the same unit used in the C6 Vette, either...even it underwent "changes", geared towards its heavier environment...

[Mr Twisty]

Ls7 = ~ $14,000
Dry Sump System = ~ $4,000



I don't recall anyone mentioning the dry sump system, just throwing that out there. TL;DR