07-24-2018, 06:28 PM | #5559 | ||
Retired from GM
Drives: 2017 Camaro Fifty SS Convertible Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Detroit
Posts: 5,484
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Remember, it wasn’t just GM. The whole INDUSTRY went from RWD to FWD. Europe was already there. They have historically had stricter emissions and fuel economy rules and higher fuel prices than the US, so fuel economy improving technologies tend to happen there first. At the old levels of efficiency, FWD vs RWD on vehicles of similar size and mass was a 1 or 2 mpg improvement. In regulation-land that’s huge, especially when the average fuel economy was significantly under 20 mpg. One mpg improvement on a 20 mpg car is 5%. Remember the Ford Probe? A little FWD coupe? That was shockingly close to becoming a Mustang replacement. Before you hurt yourself laughing at that, remember the Chevy Beretta? A little FWD coupe? Was almost Camaro replacement. And who could forget the K-Car? All FWD. All reactions to the early CAFE rules. On a more positive note, those rules drove a lot of invention. The industry learned how to get huge power and decent fuel economy out of relatively small engines because it had to. The industry learned how to make transmissions more efficient while also being capable of handling huge torque loads because it had to.
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2017 CAMARO FIFTY SS CONVERTIBLE
A8 | MRC | NPP | Nav | HUD | GM Performance CAI | Tony Mamo LT1 V2 Ported TB | Kooks 1-7/8” LT Headers | FlexFuel Tune | Thinkware Q800 Pro front and rear dash cam | Charcoal Tint for Taillights and 3rd Brakelight | Orange and Carbon Fiber Bowties | 1LE Wheels in Gunmetal Gray | Carbon Fiber Interior Overlays | Novistretch bra and mirror covers | Tow hitch for bicycle rack | |
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07-25-2018, 09:22 AM | #5560 | |
Drives: 80 Cutlass 403, 2010 FF RT Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario
Posts: 921
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I did try and get the 89 or 90 Iroc but the price was over 30K Canadian for the Camaro so ended up getting the Mustang. GM jumped on the FWD bandwagon and drank the cool-aid, they did not need to go to the level that they did, that set the path for GM's downward trend. Olds was number 2 or 3 for GM with over a Million cars and 4 years later it was selling less that Mercury (or close to that) Im more of an Olds person than Chevy so my interest mostly is in Olds Cutlass but Monte and Camaro would be my next interest. In Canada we have always paid more for fuel than the US so there has been interest in fuel mileage, we are now paying 5 to 6 a US gallon I would think that is what they are paying in Europe, but we still buy a lot of V8 engines. To fill up my 17 Ram I am paying 175$ right now, I would think that it would cost 65 in the US. Last edited by rocket403; 07-25-2018 at 09:44 AM. |
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07-25-2018, 09:53 AM | #5561 | |
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS M6 Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,940
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07-25-2018, 10:10 AM | #5562 |
Drives: 80 Cutlass 403, 2010 FF RT Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario
Posts: 921
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My tank in my Ram 1500 is 121L or 32 Gallons and run a mid grade fuel 1.36$ or Premium at 1.45$ a liter so looking at 5.2$ or 5.5$ Canadian per US Gallon
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07-25-2018, 10:22 AM | #5563 | ||
Drives: 21 Bronco Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Carol Stream
Posts: 6,035
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07-25-2018, 10:37 AM | #5564 |
Drives: 80 Cutlass 403, 2010 FF RT Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario
Posts: 921
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Only Reason that FWD was more efficient was smaller cars and engines then when FWD cars got bigger they had to find ways to keep it efficient, then when the platforms got to big back to RWD lol
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07-25-2018, 10:56 AM | #5565 |
Drives: 2SS 45TH,gfx,blade spoiler,h grille Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Leechburg PA
Posts: 295
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it takes more power to change the direction of rotation in the powertrain. rwd makes a 90 turn at the diff., fwd rotates in the same direction.
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07-25-2018, 12:58 PM | #5566 |
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS M6 Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,940
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Not to mention the extra weight of the rear differential housing, driveline, and components necessary to make it RWD. A lot of weight is lost when the differential is housed inside the transmission.
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07-25-2018, 01:00 PM | #5567 | |
Drives: 20 1LE 2SS M6 Rally Green Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Franklin WI
Posts: 6,632
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I personally stayed RWD with Camaro/Firebird/GTO but my family cars changed to Honda
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"the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.” Ronald Reagan - |
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07-25-2018, 01:21 PM | #5568 | |
Drives: 80 Cutlass 403, 2010 FF RT Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario
Posts: 921
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I really like the Monte SS and GN my 80 Olds is my take on those more blacked out GM cars. I was really a GM guy I would only own GM cars, I would never own a Dodge or a Ford, but when GM cut RWD it left a huge group of GM fans without cars to buy, my family went to Ford then Honda as you stated because GM lost their identity. I went to Mustang as the Camaro was north of 30K for the car I wanted (and the Mustang was faster) now I'm with Dodge as my friend works at the plant in Brampton and he gives me his discounts I saved 20K on my Ram with his employee numbers. I go where the cars are now have no loyalty to any brand and wished GM would make a car like the Monte again V8 RWD. So I'm a little more critical of GM as they have turned their back on the guys that liked the GN,442, 2+2 and Monte and forgot all about the Chevelle and where they came from. |
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07-25-2018, 01:36 PM | #5569 |
Drives: 80 Cutlass 403, 2010 FF RT Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario
Posts: 921
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This is my 80 Cutlass have owned it since 1994 403 2004R 3:73
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07-25-2018, 01:46 PM | #5570 |
Drives: 20 1LE 2SS M6 Rally Green Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Franklin WI
Posts: 6,632
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Nice car! Both of my brothers are 442 guys (66, 69, 70 W30, 75 w/455) and my sisters first new car was a 87 Cutlass Supreme. I know them well.
I always alternated between Chevy and Pontiac.
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"the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.” Ronald Reagan - |
07-25-2018, 01:52 PM | #5571 | |
Drives: 2018 1SS M6 Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,617
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The Big Three also had a hard time letting go of the idea of big luxurious vehicles. The cars went from powerful engines to weak engines, yet the mass of the cars stayed the same. It wasn't until 1992 when the Corvette finally got back to the 300HP mark. But taking all that they learned and outcome of that knowledge, just think if back in 1988 you would've told them that in 2018, we would see a Corvette with 755 HP, that you could drive to work everyday with the A/C on and get an "rated" avg of 15mpg (13city/19hwy). They would've called the funny farm boys to bring those jackets that tied the sleeves in the back and take you where reality didn't matter. |
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07-25-2018, 02:17 PM | #5572 |
Drives: 80 Cutlass 403, 2010 FF RT Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario
Posts: 921
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GM did need to make changes in the 80's and make smaller FWD cars with small engines but to just cut all RWD cars down to 3 Camaro/Firebird Vette and Caprice (not looking at Caddy) or Olds Wagon. That was a huge cull that hurt GM, they could have gone about it with a different approach and held a RWD Monte or Cutlass, what they did was loose buyers that went to Ford, Dodge and Japanese.
In 86 Olds sold 1050832 cars and by 92 they had 395974 sales that was a direct result of cutting RWD and models that resonated with its buyers, as well as loosing their identity again that is not offering models that their customers would want to buy. |
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