GMPP headers, exhaust, CAI add no POWER

[cooler2442]

Btw anyone questioning your warranty and GMPP parts

My current car is going through the lemon law process because one of the valves was bent because of low compression to a cylinder and the car was in the shop for 50+ days so I qualify for a buy back. Thing is the only engine mods my car had was a GMPP CAI and a GMPP Tune. If my had car any other other mods I am 100% sure the dealership wouldn't have touched it.

Yes you are protected by the Magnuson act for aftermarket parts but contrary to popular belief the burden of proof is on YOU. Meaning if the dealer wants to void the warranty they can and you need to hire a lawyer to fight it and explain that your 1 aftermarket part had no affect on the engine problem. All GM has to do is drag it out in court until you can't pay your lawyer any more.

If for any reason your concerned about your warranty then stick with GMPP or put aftermarket parts and remove them before dealership visits. Simple as that.

(P.S. considering a Camaro as my replacement car from GM since they are doing a buyback )

[Evilangel]

Originally Posted by 1camaro70

the attached component is warrented by that manufacturer, headers, exhaust, CAI, whether GM or ARH, ALL added components STRESS the engine and transmission and rear end, Parts that have NOT BEEN MODIFIED, so GM headers add stress and GM warrents the internal engine components that are stressed. You add ARH headers and GM does not warrent the engine components that are stressed whether more or less stressed? You add headers and your transmission has a failure, so only if it was GM headers you get warrenty?

seems easy to understand. NOT.

Another thing that should be understood is the fact that GM will warrant THEIR parts because they want you to buy THEIR PARTS. They make no money whatsoever off of 3rd party products.

[JDBeck23]

Yes, I agree, we're accountable for what we do. But GM is also accountable for what they promised us a consumer.

If a shifter I buy tears the transmission up... my problem isnt with GM not covering my warranty... it's with the manufacturer of the shifter and at that point im pretty much screwed!

But all im saying is that the simple act of bolting a shifter doesnt void my powertrain warranty like some would like to believe.

Certainly if the cause of the breakage turns out to actually be a part that I installed, Im definitely gonna be coming out of pocket to fix it, without a doubt. But it seems there's a bit of an understand gap of the "causing the breakage" part of the discussion.

[GEN-IV]

The problem begins when you modify with non-OEM power adding components. GM makes no claim that we can raise the output of the engine using anything but factory approved components. I don't blame them, they conduct extensive and expensive validation of their products, they can't warranty all possible aftermarket combinations.

[nova]

Originally Posted by ElAntonius

Problem with Magnuson-Moss is that ... honestly ... most of us don't have the time and money to fight over it in court. With something like a tune, it becomes very dangerous since a mysteriously snapped something or other could always be blamed on the tune.

That is certainly an issue just like with any other contract dispute, which is essentially what a warranty dispute is. Nothing is enforceable by gov't authorities until you first take it through the courts, which takes time and money.

A lot of times if you can convince whoever you're dealing with that you know what the law says and means they'll be willing to back down without actually going to court because they don't want the hassle. I had a gym try to change the terms of a membership contract on me after the signing and I used my (very limited) knowledge of the law to make them back down. I had to work my way up through 3 levels of supervisor in the customer service chain before I found someone who understood what "attorney" and "violation of contract law" meant.

Even if that doesn't work, it can be worthwhile to pay some ambulance chaser $100 to write them a nasty threat letter. A return address of "Ambulance Chaser LLC, Attorney at Law" tends to get a businesses attention at the least...

Originally Posted by HaveBlue

That's a great post on the MMA nova. But understand that that applies to a replacement part. A belt, an alternator filter etc, MMA came about because the OE's wanted to say you could ONLY USE AC Delco parts or (Insert your OE here). This was done to protect free enterprise and price competition in the huge replacement parts industry. So under MMA, an OE cannot say you can only use AC Delco, or Gates or Fram or Motorcraft to maintain your warranty.

MMA does not cover "off road only parts" that alter the factory emissions OR the emission parts. If a part doesn't alter emissions output but doesn't have an EGR valve (for example) that the original did, fail, not legal.
You can not relocate the catalytic converters, period. I'm not saying it makes sense, it's the Federal Government after all. That's why Cat-Backs are so popular. No emissions stuff gets relocated.

Certified Emissions Legal parts are covered under MMA.

I can't remember what it is off the top of my head, but there's actually another law (maybe part of the clean air act?) that covers emissions warranties and what voids them and under what circumstances. I don't know what the details are. Hell, the only reason I know about MMA is I had to consult with an attorney over a warranty back in college. For some reason I always end up dealing with the most scummy of companies....

Even with MMA, the potential warranty hassle is the main reason I won't be modding with anything other than GMPP. I've dealt with enough stupid crap like that in my relatively short life that I don't want the hassle...

[HaveBlue]

Originally Posted by JDBeck23

Yes, I agree, we're accountable for what we do. But GM is also accountable for what they promised us a consumer.

If a shifter I buy tears the transmission up... my problem isn't with GM not covering my warranty... it's with the manufacturer of the shifter and at that point im pretty much screwed!

But all im saying is that the simple act of bolting a shifter doesnt void my powertrain warranty like some would like to believe.

Certainly if the cause of the breakage turns out to actually be a part that I installed, I'm definitely gonna be coming out of pocket to fix it, without a doubt. But it seems there's a bit of an understand gap of the "causing the breakage" part of the discussion.

Well we've gone from power adders and emissions mods to shifters?
Not sure how a shifter would tear up a tranny. More than likely it would be driving/shifting competence. Also correct installation.
Many want to DIY their cars because they don't want to pay shop rates or they enjoy working on their cars. But many times there is a learning curve. The right way to do it, the right tools, etc. When the DIY'er does it wrong and breaks the part, they want to have the manufacturer warranty the part and or pay for other damage or labor to get it done right. Why should the manufacturer pay for your learning curve, because you wanted to save money and did it wrong. Probably half the shop work I see at shops is fixing something that was done wrong the first time by someone else.

It comes down to a simple fact. GM warranties the car the way they built it.

[Van]

^^actually...many of us like doing it ourselves because people working at dealer level who get paid in flag hours a lot of times don't care about your car, will screw up and hide the evidence, will still not install properly, will scratch up the car, will drive the car "spiritedly" from one end of the parking lot to the other, and so on.

Minus a couple of things, I've done all the work to my EVO. Why? Because than I know it IS done right and not by some guy who's just working slave labor rates and wants to take it out on my car.

[JDBeck23]

Originally Posted by HaveBlue

Well we've gone from power adders and emissions mods to shifters?
Not sure how a shifter would tear up a tranny. More than likely it would be driving/shifting competence. Also correct installation.
Many want to DIY their cars because they don't want to pay shop rates or they enjoy working on their cars. But many times there is a learning curve. The right way to do it, the right tools, etc. When the DIY'er does it wrong and breaks the part, they want to have the manufacturer warranty the part and or pay for other damage or labor to get it done right. Why should the manufacturer pay for your learning curve, because you wanted to save money and did it wrong. Probably half the shop work I see at shops is fixing something that was done wrong the first time by someone else.

It comes down to a simple fact. GM warranties the car the way they built it.

I used the shifter as an example, and I agree with you... if I mess it up, I'll pay for it. But if some punk at the dealer tries to tell me that my output shaft snapping was caused by my aftermarket shifter (again example only), and now my warranty is void, I have a serious problem with that.

[Van]

That's why I'm waiting for a while to do any performance mods. I want to make sure that if/when my output shaft goes they have no reason whatsoever to not cover it.

[Adabisi]

1camaro70

You are under the assumption that changing to a cat back exhaust that adds a little bit of horsepower adds stress. I'm sorry I dont want to sound rude but you need to understand the difference between freeing up horsepower and adding horsepower. Making a car run more effeciently doesnt cause it more stress. You absolutely cannot list all mods under the same category. Adding a CAI that lets your engine breath easier doesnt put more stress on the engine. That isnt to say if your MAF fails that some dealerships wont be aholes and not cover it under warranty, but if you throw a rod they arent in any posistion to blame the CAI.

Obviously if your going to add some kind of FI which changes compression and/or tune and change F/A ratio's then ultimately you are changing the equation that they have certified for warranty on that car. It's their engineering regardless of how crappy it is.... that's what they certified as what everyting needs to be warranted. Everything that makes up the powertrain is revolves around that equation of how that engine makes its hp and trq. Its how it's engineered to run

Your examples of "adding HP" doesnt auto equate to stressing the engine. It's the same reason why the rest of your powertrain has an upper tolerance limit. They have to assume on each car YMMV on what kind of hp and tq you'll produce. GM isnt going to push a car out that every part is sitting at its max tolerance level so if you change ur air filter that your going to shred every part. At the same respect if the tranny is stated to handle 500hp and you boost your car to 600 then its all on you. But lets be honest here if your this concerned you cant afford to add that much hp... because if you could you wouldnt care about the warranty anyways.

IMO go with GMPP. The reason why you pay more for a rebadged part is because its a way for them to re-absorb warranty repair work costs. GM knows u can get the same part cheaper, but they also know dealerships wouldnt be out of their rights to deny certain warranty work. You are going to pay for it one way or another.

[496BIGBLOCK]

I just broke my face on the desk after these three pages...

[Scott@Bjorn3D]

Originally Posted by rodimus prime

Your entire drivetrain wont be voided because of exhaust work. Your exhaust will be voided and any components directly related to it...i.e o2 sensors.

Yes it will. I talked to GM in depth about this. Anything that makes more power out of the car than it came from the factory will void the drivetrain warranty.

[Van]

^^Whoever you spoke with lied to you. They can't legally do so unless the part is directly responsible.

Of course we all know that even though the burden of proof is on the manufacturer (legally) that in reality none of us would probably spend the doe to have the law enforced. We'd be spending more in legal fees than the entire engine costs us.

Play it safe with the GMPP parts if you don't want hassles...simple as that.

[Scott@Bjorn3D]

Well then you are calling alot of people at GM a liars then. With my car issue I have talked to alot.