Not Good, GM wants another 16 or is it 9 Billion to Survive.

[rmyers]

Originally Posted by kylepo

CURRENT UAW workers hourly pay is around equal to the transplants. DO a search anywhere and you will find this to be true. I’m betting you are thinking about the 70 dollar and hour figure that many were throwing around. But that is divided by all retirees compared to the transplants current work force because they have virtually no retirees. And refer to my other post on who would provide chap 11 financing even though that is a non issue because chap 11 would lead to chap 7 liquidation.

So you first appear to be the expert, but still can't provide evidence to your assumptions that the FED would finance Chapter 11. Which is exactly what I figured would happen but remain optimistically hopeful that you will still help me to get that clue.

Chapter 11 may very well cost GM more than the government is financing them. But that cost would be GM's not the Fed's. And it would certainly cost them less then the debt that currently appears on the balance sheet. Otherwise what would be the point.

Who do you think is responsible for the $70.00 average cost when you consider the hourly retirees and others still collecting on the system. The UAW and GM is to blame for this unsustainable policy, which again only sustains the points I made. The same one you disputed. You assumed I was talking about the average worker making $30.00 per hour on his paycheck. But here again your assumptions were wrong. I was looking at it from a higher level which is to say the same way management would analyze that expense on their balance sheets.

I'm unsubscribing from this thread. Please feel free to educate me via private message as I may be guilty of fanning the flames on this one.

[kylepo]

Originally Posted by irpq11

I'm not being a smart alec here, really. Can you guide me to this info? It just doesn't compute. GM would initialy owe nothing. After the proceedings GM would then be on a schedule. And I'm fairly certain that the businesses that GM owes, would still do business with them but on a cash basis. With no initial debt, GM would have operating capitol. People don't utilize the Chap. 11 option because it costs more. And in both Chap. 7, and 11 it's the businesses that take the hit. You don't think that the Gov. pays the businesses that a filer owes do you? Maybe I missed something. 100 Bil?

GM has over 30 Billion in debt not including the GOV money. If that is wiped clean no one would loan GM a red cent. they have a neg cash flow and would continue to have a neg cash flow during a chap 11 reorganization. reorgization cost alot of money something GM would only have acces to thorugh either straight loans from the GOV or gov protected loans. search google for the 100 billion figure I have seen in many places.

[GrnMchin]

I believe the $70.00 is the hourly rate and benefits. No sure?

[PQ]

Originally Posted by kylepo

GM has over 30 Billion in debt not including the GOV money. If that is wiped clean no one would loan GM a red cent. they have a neg cash flow and would continue to have a neg cash flow during a chap 11 reorganization. reorgization cost alot of money something GM would only have acces to thorugh either straight loans from the GOV or gov protected loans. search google for the 100 billion figure I have seen in many places.

I'll have to. Just doesn't compute. No business want to go out of business. The choice in a chap. 11 is work with GM or go out of business. All of this would be worked out during the restructuring. If they give GM the money, it needs to come out of the bill signed by Obama today. We don't need any more parks right now. Oh and these 'Figures' I'm sure don't come from the WIZARDS in the fray right now.

[kylepo]

Originally Posted by GrnMchin

I believe the $70.00 is the hourly rate and benefits. No sure?

its the total costs of all current and retired workers pay pensions and health care everything. divided by the current workers thats how they get the 70
makes alot of sense right

[PQ]

No I'm certainly not a wizard. But a business owner who has lost patience with the Feds.

[GrnMchin]

Originally Posted by kylepo

its the total costs of all current and retired workers pay pensions and health care everything. divided by the current workers thats how they get the 70
makes alot of sense right

Thanks.

[RT21]

Originally Posted by kylepo

But

Originally Posted by rmyers

So

STFU...700 billion vs 7 billion. Do the math. You 2 are arguing over your egos...get over it. Talk about AIG or Sally. GM is doin great compared to them.

[kylepo]

Originally Posted by irpq11

I'll have to. Just doesn't compute. No business want to go out of business. The choice in a chap. 11 is work with GM or go out of business. All of this would be worked out during the restructuring. If they give GM the money, it needs to come out of the bill signed by Obama today. We don't need any more parks right now.

That’s what GM is doing right now they are working with the UAW actually they just got an agreement with them which is great. And also with bondholders to try to reduce a lot of the 30 billion in debt in exchange for shares in GM.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by kylepo

its the total costs of all current and retired workers pay pensions and health care everything. divided by the current workers thats how they get the 70
makes alot of sense right

You can't deny the fact that the foreign car makers who build here have employee costs MUCH lower.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by kylepo

That’s what GM is doing right now they are working with the UAW actually they just got an agreement with them which is great. And also with bondholders to try to reduce a lot of the 30 billion in debt in exchange for shares in GM.

I hope your right.

Oops , should have coupled these.

[kylepo]

Originally Posted by RT21

700 billion vs 7 billion. Do the math. You 2 are arguing over your egos...get over it. Talk about AIG or Sally. GM is doin great compared to them.

[GrnMchin]

Originally Posted by kylepo

That’s what GM is doing right now they are working with the UAW actually they just got an agreement with them which is great. And also with bondholders to try to reduce a lot of the 30 billion in debt in exchange for shares in GM.

Good solution to save the company hope it gets done.

[kylepo]

Originally Posted by irpq11

You can't deny the fact that the foreign car makers who build here have employee costs MUCH lower.

No they are nearly EQUAL with the deal that was reached tonight they will be EQUAL. But that is the preception and that is one of GM biggest enemies.

Originally Posted by irpq11

I hope your right.

Oops , should have coupled these.

Read up on any of the major news sites/ Major auto news sites.