Pfadt clunking?

[SSSoon]

Originally Posted by RIDE-F-X

Hmmm... you were able to check both sides right? Did it still make the noise while you were watching the top part of the struts? The little bit of translational movement and the gap is normal. The coil spring should be spinning when the body of the shock turns, if it's not maybe that's what is making the noise. The shock shaft shouldn't be spinning while turning either... let us know how you make out...

Yes, checked both sides. Coil spring definitely turning.

Here's my current theory: The old neoprene liner to the isolator that sits on top of the spring was compressed by the old spring - the end kind of dug into the neoprene and caused a long, smooth dent at the end. The new spring does not fit that dent well, and so is shifting slightly when I turn the wheel - it slides a bit on the neoprene. We ordered a set of isolators from GM but they came without the neoprene padding, so just waiting for that to arrive now. Am going to change out both the isolators (in case the bearings are worn in some weird way, but should not be after 10k miles) and the neoprene pads when they arrive from GM hopefully in the next day or two. Will post an update when that's done.

[SSSoon]

Originally Posted by SSTG

I have the same noise after installing my Pfadt springs. I talked to Jordan today about purchasing new sway bars and end links to try and remedy the noise. But I need to isolate the sways first to make sure that is the problem.
There are a TON of complaints with popping noises after lowering springs are installed. Not just with Pfadt but all manufactures.
Does anyone have a good pic of what the stock endlinks should look like when installed properly?

I've also spoken to other people who put on aftermarket springs and didn't have popping sounds, so it must be fixable somehow...

Just so you know, I have Pfadt sway bars and end links and still get the noise. It doesn't have anything to do with your sway. Here's how you can prove that: Disconnect the OEM sway and turn the wheel while stationary. Does it still pop? If so, it's not the sway or the end links. I did that and the noise is still there even with the Pfadt end link disconnected.

There's a pic of my car with Pfadt end links installed earlier in this thread, fyi.

[SSTG]

Originally Posted by SSSoon

I've also spoken to other people who put on aftermarket springs and didn't have popping sounds, so it must be fixable somehow...

Yes, I know there should be no noise. I was just not wanting to single out Pfadt.

Just so you know, I have Pfadt sway bars and end links and still get the noise. It doesn't have anything to do with your sway. Here's how you can prove that: Disconnect the OEM sway and turn the wheel while stationary. Does it still pop? If so, it's not the sway or the end links. I did that and the noise is still there even with the Pfadt end link disconnected.

Thank you, I know how. I just haven't been able to test yet.

There's a pic of my car with Pfadt end links installed earlier in this thread, fyi.

I seen that pic. I was wanting a pic of stock as that is what I have. Your thread was the first I read of the links being aligned?

[SSTG]

Also, do you have the part numbers to order the isolators from GM? And what should I tell them so they send everything I need the first time.

[PfadtRacing]

SSSoon, just curious but is there a chance that the noise you are hearing is described in the GM press release below? Some members on here have heard this noise from the factory and others only noticed it after upgrading their springs. Let me know what you think:

Originally Posted by kencarguy

Good evening everyone- On the first birthday of my 2010 IOM Camaro 2LTRS, my dealer sent me an electronic birthday card. I am pretty friensdly with the Sales manager, so I replied, asking whether GM had come up with a "fix" for the front end noise in the year since I bought my car. The manager looked into ths question and sent me the GM notice below. It looks like it just came out last week so it is up to date.

I guess the real issue is whether it is considered "normal" nose, common to Camaros in general. I offered to bring the car in and let his techs go over it once again. I also cited what people on this thread are saying about replacing strut assemblies and torn/shifted strut pads.... I also noted that many people on this thread have said they have NO NOISE. I guess that makes my noise abnormal then doesn't it?

I will wait to see what response I get. I hope this helps you all!

Ken
Kencarguy@msn.com


This is the latest information he found...not sure if the noise you're hearing is going to be consider normal for the vehicle or not...

Service Information




Document ID: 2512852
#PI0197: Front Suspension Thump or Loose Lumber Noise - (Aug 4, 2010)

Subject:Front Suspension Thump or "Loose Lumber" Noise

Models:2010-2011 Chevrolet Camaro

The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.
Condition/Concern

Some customers may comment about suspension noise coming from the front of the vehicle when driving at low/moderate speeds (16-40 km/h [10-25 mph]) over rough roadway surfaces (cracks, lightly broken surfaces). The sound has been described as a rattle, knocking, clunking or "loose lumber" noise. This sound should be of a relatively low volume and behave as a brief rumble or thud following impacts with rough roadways. The sound is non-metallic in nature and has a dull wooden character.
The "loose lumber" sound exists as a result of the basic component configuration and tuning that effect the ride, handling and steering of the vehicle.
Recommendation/Instructions

When a customer brings in a vehicle with front suspension noise, upon confirmation of the sound via a test drive, a brief inspection of the front suspension should be conducted (fastener torques, bushing/ball joint health). If no issues are found, the technician should confirm that the sound is/is not typical for the Camaro. (If needed, drive another Camaro and note the sound quality over small impacts.) If the sound is common in character with that of other Camaros, the customer should be informed that the vehicle is operating as intended and that the "loose lumber" sound is a normal suspension sound.
Warranty Information

If the noise is found to be a normal condition, please submit labor operation E9995 (Customer Concern Not Duplicated -- Tires, Wheels, Suspension and Steering); otherwise, utilize the labor operation for the repaired or replaced component.
GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.

WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION

© 2010 General Motors. All rights reserved.



Would you like us to reevaluate the concern?

Thanks,

Jason

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by SSSoon

Here's my current theory: The old neoprene liner to the isolator that sits on top of the spring was compressed by the old spring - the end kind of dug into the neoprene and caused a long, smooth dent at the end. The new spring does not fit that dent well, and so is shifting slightly when I turn the wheel - it slides a bit on the neoprene. We ordered a set of isolators from GM but they came without the neoprene padding, so just waiting for that to arrive now. Am going to change out both the isolators (in case the bearings are worn in some weird way, but should not be after 10k miles) and the neoprene pads when they arrive from GM hopefully in the next day or two. Will post an update when that's done.

There is more than enough weight from the vehicle to overcome the impression left by the OEM coil. You could run the coils without the old neoprene insulator and the only change in NVH would be a slight increase in road noise, but it would not pop. If your noise goes away with the new insulators, it will be due to a change in the overall assembly and not the insulators.

Originally Posted by SSSoon

Just so you know, I have Pfadt sway bars and end links and still get the noise. It doesn't have anything to do with your sway. Here's how you can prove that: Disconnect the OEM sway and turn the wheel while stationary. Does it still pop? If so, it's not the sway or the end links. I did that and the noise is still there even with the Pfadt end link disconnected.

Excellent post!

[SSSoon]

Originally Posted by PfadtRacing

SSSoon, just curious but is there a chance that the noise you are hearing is described in the GM press release below? Some members on here have heard this noise from the factory and others only noticed it after upgrading their springs. Let me know what you think:

Honestly I don't think so. It's most obvious when the car is just pulling out of a parking spot or into the garage, so does not fit the pattern. Also does not sound like they describe - more like a series of quick popping noises. So, appreciate the suggestion, but does not match what I am experiencing.

[SSSoon]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

There is more than enough weight from the vehicle to overcome the impression left by the OEM coil. You could run the coils without the old neoprene insulator and the only change in NVH would be a slight increase in road noise, but it would not pop. If your noise goes away with the new insulators, it will be due to a change in the overall assembly and not the insulators.

Thanks for the input. I gotta admit, I have pretty limited mechanical knowledge here, so the neoprene thing was just a guess. But, we have done everything we can to isolate it and it has to be at the top of the strut. I guess we'll see once we get the new insulator and assembly in place.

The only other thing it could be would be the top of the strut assembly moving around inside the hole where it is bolted into the body. It's supposed to move as the wheel turns but maybe something about how it is moving is different when it was re-bolted in? I don't know if there are options on how tightly it gets fastened back into the body at the top, and from the pix it looks like there is plenty of clearance there as it is apparently supposed to be. So, does not sound like it to me but I guess we'll check if swapping out the insulator doesn't work.

[PfadtRacing]

Originally Posted by SSSoon

Honestly I don't think so. It's most obvious when the car is just pulling out of a parking spot or into the garage, so does not fit the pattern. Also does not sound like they describe - more like a series of quick popping noises. So, appreciate the suggestion, but does not match what I am experiencing.

I believe you mentioned to one of our techs on the phone that you loosened the steering rack for installation of something? or you removed it? Can you verify that everything is OEM-tight in that assembly currently and there isn't any binding present on the Tie rods? Is there any wear marks anywhere from part interference?

[SSSoon]

Originally Posted by PfadtRacing

I believe you mentioned to one of our techs on the phone that you loosened the steering rack for installation of something? or you removed it? Can you verify that everything is OEM-tight in that assembly currently and there isn't any binding present on the Tie rods? Is there any wear marks anywhere from part interference?

Yeah, we had to loosen the steering rack, shift if a few inches to get the sway bar out, and then shift it back and re-tighten. We already checked the steering rack when we had the car up on the hoist and it is tight. Will check for binding and wear marks next time we have it up. Thanks for the suggestion!

[PfadtRacing]

I can't help but think you should REALLY investigate any steering problems that may have resulted in this, and moving the column. Be sure to check under the hood too and investigate any column binding on parts, or wires or lines etc. Given the noise problems you are describing, and when it happens, this could be a good place to look at. Make sure your engine mounts are not broken too, as this would cause the engine to interfere with the column and potentially bind the system and pop occasionally.

[PQ]

Are we sure that it's not the same noise in the upper strut tower cradle that TAG and some others solved with rubber hose or something like that?

Also, OP, can you get some video of the noise?

This has GOT to be something really simple.

[PQ]

This thread is the one I'm talking about.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...er+strut+noise

And it wasn't rubber hose that fixed it but a toilet bowl thingy.

Worth a check I think.

[PfadtRacing]

Originally Posted by PQ

Are we sure that it's not the same noise in the upper strut tower cradle that TAG and some others solved with rubber hose or something like that?

Also, OP, can you get some video of the noise?

This has GOT to be something really simple.

Originally Posted by PQ

This thread is the one I'm talking about.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...er+strut+noise

And it wasn't rubber hose that fixed it but a toilet bowl thingy.

Worth a check I think.

Thanks for the suggestions.