GM to drop Pontiac

[EZ28]

Originally Posted by vm1971

i think if Pontiac were to STAY somehow.,.... then SUPER-niche.
NO more lameo cars.
G8 GT / GXP
Solstice Coupe
and a new, re-done, Super Muscular, REVIVED GTO with a honkin' V8 ONLY.
and keep these very niche, very performance, and VERY limited. they'd surely sell.

but, that would nevvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvver fly.
it be cool as hell though.

(Sigh)

I agree with you and I would hope the Firebird could fit in that lineup too. And I agree with the OP, that there's too much overlap in their brands. The firebird would be the same as the Camaro, just in different clothing. It still would be totally awesome to see them remake the Firebird though.

[vm1971]

Originally Posted by cyberbro

Monte is a 2 door car! New Impala, I bet the cops would like that!

Mmmmmmmmmm!
new impala... (for G8)... me likey.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
NEW MONTE = same deal... but coupe-ize it,
make it more niche: SS only, slammin V8.

then id really be in a pickle.

V

[Hylton]

Saab, Hummer, Saturn, Pontiac...just one more brand to get rid of and they'll be back on the road to recovery. There is no reason to go forward with anything more than Chevrolet, Buick and Cadillac.

[vm1971]

Originally Posted by EZ28

I agree with you and I would hope the Firebird could fit in that lineup too. And I agree with the OP, that there's too much overlap in their brands. The firebird would be the same as the Camaro, just in different clothing. It still would be totally awesome to see them remake the Firebird though.

yeah, but id rather just see CAMARO. believe me, my dad has had THREE firebirds during my childhood and into my early 30's. i love 'em.
but - we have CAMARO and it needs to stay in the spotlight.

the GTO, however... could be SUCH an AMAZING re-do. the same way we got the new challenger and camaro. do it right, ... REAL good.. and a NEW, vicious GTO would surely sell to the diehards.

[diddiyo]

Originally Posted by Hylton

Saab, Hummer, Saturn, Pontiac...just one more brand to get rid of and they'll be back on the road to recovery. There is no reason to go forward with anything more than Chevrolet, Buick and Cadillac.

isn't GMC their most profitable brand?

Originally Posted by vm1971

and a NEW, vicious GTO would surely sell to the diehards.

they need cars that not only die-hards would buy.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by diddiyo

isn't GMC their most profitable brand?

Sure it is but why wouldn't it be when it mooches off of Chevrolet on the development costs.

[Suskam]

The hammer begins to fall...

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2009...NEWS/904249981

[vm1971]

Originally Posted by Hylton

Sure it is but why wouldn't it be when it mooches off of Chevrolet on the development costs.

yeah, and if we didnt have GMC anymore, hopefully they'd just buy the chevy equivalents and really beef up CHEVY's pull!

but again,
i cannot see it happening. sad.
i say... dont DITCH pontiac altogether.... keep it alive via a tiny, PERFORMANCE only niche. please please please.
ive been seeing more and more G8s in my area and its awesome when i see yet ANOTHER one. and around here, EVERY OTHER CAR on the ROAD is a later model Grand Prix, Bonneville, or G6!!! EVERYWHERE!

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by vm1971

yeah, and if we didnt have GMC anymore, hopefully they'd just buy the chevy equivalents and really beef up CHEVY's pull!

More than most people realize. Do you know that the only reason Ford can claim it is the best selling pick-up in the world is because Chevy and GMC are not considered the same vehicle? Assuming anyone who previously bought a GMC were to buy a Chevy, The F150 would quickly be de-throwned.

[vm1971]

Originally Posted by Hylton

More than most people realize. Do you know that the only reason Ford can claim it is the best selling pick-up in the world is because Chevy and GMC are not considered the same vehicle? Assuming anyone who previously bought a GMC were to buy a Chevy, The F150 would quickly be de-throwned.

i think Obama and GM should read these forums everyday and hire some of us.
hahaha.
all kidding aside... lots of stuff being said in here DOES make sense!

no matter what happens, as the new chapters unfold... it WILL be interesting to see what comes out of it. i just want this sh*tstorm to END, already.
i miss growing up in the late 70's and 80's (ish) and cars being a source of FUN and happiness. i still have a blast with my cars, and i WILL have my CAMARO and be GIDDYER than a skoolgirl... but... this is actually exhausting – all of this crappy news. thats why regardless of WHAT they do, im anxious for a leaner, meaner healthier GM to EVENTUALLY (hopefully) emerge.

[iwannagofast]

I'm sad to see if Pontiac really must go,but its the same way with Olds, and Plymouth. Both divisions had the same cars with just a bit of different styling cues on the front and rear and a different name. I'm afraid the years of the muscle car era and american goodness died in the 1970's with the gas issues and insurance. That's the Pontiac, Plymouth and Olds I remember and love. The only good cars I really remember coming from Pontiac were the Grand Prix/Am, firebird/T/A, and the Bonneville. I'd rather see it go a peaceful death than a long overdue death... Unless I've had this idea for awhile. I know it sounds weird, but for those that read this at GM here me out. The G8 yeah is awesome and will probably be rebadged, but if ya create a two door version call it the chevelle/montecarlo and the G8 the impala. Next for all those Firebird and T/A lovers, really how much would it really take to convert that covert that Camaro into a firebird. Retool the the plastic dyes for the front and rear to make them look like the firebird, make a couple tiny interior mods to the dash, ie dash gauges, for the driver to make it a firebird dash and keep the aux gauges the same, they would look cool in each vehicle, and have Oshawa keep making them. Bascially it wouldn't cost that much to convert a camaro into a firebird and vise versa and for those who were on the line on getting camaro, but I would rather have the firebird can have there cake and eat it too. Too me pontiac will probably die, but why waste the name and badging. I guess in this long ramble I'm saying the company pontiac can go out to pasture, but just take all those sales of the firebird and put them under Chevy company, heck you could call it Pontiac Firebird by Chevy.

[vm1971]

Originally Posted by iwannagofast

I'm sad to see if Pontiac really must go,but its the same way with Olds, and Plymouth. Both divisions had the same cars with just a bit of different styling cues on the front and rear and a different name. I'm afraid the years of the muscle car era and american goodness died in the 1970's with the gas issues and insurance. That's the Pontiac, Plymouth and Olds I remember and love. The only good cars I really remember coming from Pontiac were the Grand Prix/Am, firebird/T/A, and the Bonneville. I'd rather see it go a peaceful death than a long overdue death... Unless I've had this idea for awhile. I know it sounds weird, but for those that read this at GM here me out. The G8 yeah is awesome and will probably be rebadged, but if ya create a two door version call it the chevelle/montecarlo and the G8 the impala. Next for all those Firebird and T/A lovers, really how much would it really take to convert that covert that Camaro into a firebird. Retool the the plastic dyes for the front and rear to make them look like the firebird, make a couple tiny interior mods to the dash, ie dash gauges, for the driver to make it a firebird dash and keep the aux gauges the same, they would look cool in each vehicle, and have Oshawa keep making them. Bascially it wouldn't cost that much to convert a camaro into a firebird and vise versa and for those who were on the line on getting camaro, but I would rather have the firebird can have there cake and eat it too. Too me pontiac will probably die, but why waste the name and badging. I guess in this long ramble I'm saying the company pontiac can go out to pasture, but just take all those sales of the firebird and put them under Chevy company, heck you could call it Pontiac Firebird by Chevy.

as much as i hate to admit this...
i do like the idea of the G8 coming over to chevy. its a nice lookin car - but in a not-so muscle-y way. i drove a GT and it was sweet.
but if pontiac has to die, yes.... please bring the G8 to us chevy dudes.
Impala SS.... give it that new, KILLER chevy-front-end stance that people are devouring via the MALIBU re-do and EVEN the new TRAVERSE (seeing lots on the road now!) that would FINALLY be another BADASS Impala.
and of course have your more conservative trims. thats another car - EVERY other car on the road is an Impala. a new "G8-pala" would do VERY well.

V

[Iwantone2]

Wow, I guess they really need the money. They got an additional $2 Billion from us:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090424/...s_auto_bailout

[Crowley]

Says they are dead?
GM Said to Keep GMC, Eliminate Pontiac in New Plan (Update1)
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By Jeff Green and Katie Merx

April 24 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp., facing the threat of a bankruptcy filing if it can’t meet a June 1 U.S. deadline, will preserve the GMC truck line and drop its 83-year- old Pontiac brand as part of a government-led recalibration of its business plan, people familiar with the decision said.

The Detroit automaker, which received an additional $2 billion in federal assistance on April 22, will keep the GMC, Chevrolet, Cadillac and Buick brands, after a review that included profitability with the Obama administration’s automotive task force, said the people, who asked not to be named because the decisions have not been announced.

GM may reveal next week the end of the make that produced the Grand Prix, Bonneville and Firebirds, they said.

“I hate to see these brands go, they are a part of the American experience,” said John Wolkonowicz, a forecaster and auto historian at IHS Global Insight Inc. in Lexington, Massachusetts. “If you were growing up in the 1960s, Pontiac was the hottest thing going.”

Pontiac spawned the “muscle car” era in 1964 when it stuffed a 389-cubic-inch V8 engine into a Tempest and called it the GTO. Killing the brand highlights the changes GM is being forced to make to survive in its second century of carmaking.

GM had already decided late last year to cut Pontiac to a niche brand, possibly with just one model, to sell alongside Buick and GMC in combined showrooms. To trim from its roster of eight U.S. brands, GM has said it will sell or shut Hummer, Saab and Saturn.

Steve Harris, a GM spokesman, declined to comment on the brands.

Savings Needed

“I should have seen the signs: You can’t even order a 2010 Pontiac G6,” said Russ Shelton, a Pontiac-Buick-GMC dealer in Rochester Hills, Michigan. “Once they make this announcement, those are basically sales-proof.”

Chief Executive Officer Fritz Henderson is in a race against the June deadline set by President Barack Obama to find more savings from unions, creditors and operations.

A Pontiac announcement next week may be part of an outline of a plan to close plants and scrap models as much as four years sooner than planned to lower its break-even point, the people said.

Lower Break-Even

The cuts may mean GM can be profitable in a U.S. market with sales of as few as 10 million autos, said the people. The annual sales rate was 9.9 million in March, after GM said Feb. 17 its break-even target was 11.5 million to 12 million.

The number of brands is part of a discussion on how to speed up the winnowing of GM’s 6,200 dealer locations to 4,100 sites as quickly as possible, said one person.

The U.S. Treasury said today that it provided an additional $2 billion to keep GM operating. The new money is part of $5 billion disclosed this week in a report by the special inspector general for the Troubled Asset Relief Program. GM has received $15.4 billion from the Treasury.

GMC’s truck-building history dates to 1902, when brothers Max and Morris Grabowsky sold their first commercial model to a Detroit dry cleaner, according to GM’s Web site. Their Rapid Motor Vehicle Co. was absorbed by GM in 1912, along with two other Detroit-based commercial-vehicle makers, GM said.

By 1915, GMC produced the first light-duty vehicle with the basic configuration of a modern pickup, according to the automaker. GMC’s U.S. sales fell 26 percent last year to 376,996, making it GM’s second-largest brand after Chevrolet.

The Pontiac brand was first sold by GM in 1926, and U.S. sales peaked at 896,980 in 1978, according to trade publication Automotive News. Pontiac’s domestic deliveries fell 25 percent to 267,348 in 2008.

Muscle-Car Brand

Pontiac originated as part of the Oakland Car Co. of Pontiac, Michigan, in 1907. GM acquired Oakland in 1909 and introduced the first Pontiac vehicle in 1926 at the New York auto show. The Pontiac models were so popular they replaced the division’s namesake Oakland models.

By the 1950s, Pontiac sales were flagging as the brand was seen as an “old ladies” car with its signature “silver streaks” of chrome on the hood and trunk, Wolkoniwicz said.

In 1956, Semon “Bunkie” Knudsen took over the division, stripped off the streaks for the 1957 models and started making the changes that led to the GTO in 1964 --including the trademark split grill, Wolkoniwicz said.

‘Smokey and the Bandit’

Pontiac was the third best-selling brand in the early 1960s, passing Plymouth, which DaimlerChrysler AG killed in 2001, and trailing only Ford and Chevy.

Pontiac also had success in the 1960s and 1970s with its Firebird and Firebird Trans Am -- featured in the 1977 movie “Smokey and the Bandit,” staring Burt Reynolds and Sally Field.

“I’d rather keep it,” said David Cole, co-owner of the Cole Valley Pontiac Cadillac dealership located near the Lordstown, Ohio, assembly plant that builds the Pontiac G5. “The sooner they make clear what they’re going to do with the brand, the better it will be for us. I will survive. I just have to be able to plan.”

GM rose 6 cents, or 3.7 percent, to $1.68 at 10:21 a.m. in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. The shares have tumbled 90 percent in the past year on concern that the company may collapse after $82 billion in losses since 2004.

‘Truly Iconic’

GM has stepped up planning for both a new business model and a potential bankruptcy since late March, when the Obama administration asked CEO Rick Wagoner to resign and said it would back a “quick-rinse” bankruptcy to cut debt and other costs if GM couldn’t do so in 60 days.

Chevrolet and Cadillac are GM’s strongest brands and Buick is popular in China. GMC and Buick are both profitable, Henderson said April 17. Pontiac was scheduled for as few as one model, so killing it wasn’t as significant a step as deleting one of the other brands, one person said.

“Pontiac was the first real muscle car and the government doesn’t want muscle cars,” favoring fuel-efficient models, Wolkonowicz said. “I’m sad to see this brand go, it’s truly iconic.”

To contact the reporters on this story: Jeff Green in Southfield, Michigan at jgreen16@bloomberg.net; Katie Merx in Southfield, Michigan, at kmerx@bloomberg.net