Ok.... car surging and dying again......

[PQ]

Originally Posted by 1sikRS

If the fuel pump does crap out a zl1 pump will perform much better in our cars so I've read

Originally Posted by mlee

Get rid of that Pipeline CAI...

Really?

Originally Posted by Matster

Hey PQ, most likely in the tune. You mention that it does it when it is Hot outside but not when the outdoor temps are cool. I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but in hotter temperatures the car will pull timing in order to keep AIT down to prevent pre-detonation. Now I'm not sure where it get AIT from, MAF sensor? Like I said, I'm no expert I leave that to my shop.

It took 3 days on the dyno last summer to get mine dialed in with temperatures in the shop of over 100F and humidity that was way up there. After one pull on the dyno it was pulling timing so much that it had to sit for 30 - 45 mins before they could run it again.

I cut the AIT wires when I installed the blower. They get rerouted to the side of the Maggie. It get's the temps from inside now.

Originally Posted by Supercharged SS

Breather. As is a valve cover breathe. Not a cai.

Ok. lol, no I don't have a breather. I do have the crank case breather on the oil filler cap.

Originally Posted by Scott@Bjorn3D

Could take MAF out and clean it. Since the car ran fine last summer after the tune. Also double check it the MAF while out cleaning it that it is a double digit strong one. A weak one being dirty would be real bad versus a strong one being dirty.

It's a strong one. No visible dirt at all. Shiny and clean but I can do it I guess.

Originally Posted by Dr Jkel

Randy...I have had the same issue with the kinked hose and replaced it...Don't know really what it did but it seemed to help.

Since I have been helping work on the tune for Mr. Hyde I have actually learned just a few things that COULD be causing your problem.

These things dramatically have to do with idle and surging first would be the IATS( Idle Air Temperature Sensor) IAC ( Idle Air Control) and the TPS ( Throttle Position Sensor). I am not even sure our cars have them put from my understanding all fuel injection does. I don't even know how to check these sensors.

I know Matt played with the tune while Hyde is running and it drastically changes how it idles.

Since your issue has been there for a good bit of time and it seems affected by temperature change I would check these...I could be out in left field just a thought though.

I'll replace it. Not sure what with. I guess I can just use hosing?

Originally Posted by BLACK10

X2

your car was probably tuned in cooler weather. now it needs to be tweaked since its really hot out side.

Actually it was 114 degrees in the shop that particular day. Atlanta in July.
They wanted to try and get some cold start tuning done but didn't get around to it. However I doubt that a cold start tune would help, this problem happens even when plenty warmed up.

Originally Posted by SC2150

A failing MAF may cause all you describe and it may not throw a CEL....not sure if that has been swapped out (did not read all the posts in the thread).

Has not been swapped this go round. I'll try it as well.

Originally Posted by Mr Twisty

First thing I would try is forged bottom end.....

Hey, it worked before with your exhaust leak, didn't you get a cam out of that deal?

OMFG.............

No doubt. lmmfao

Originally Posted by Pro Stock John

OP has what...

full exhaust
cam
blower
cai
...and is 6 speed?

MAF: If you don't have time to bring it anywhere, buy another MAF and try it. If the MAF filaments got dirty or damaged, could be a cause.

IAC: I don't know how these work on the 5th gen, on the 4th gen it was in the side of the TB and it could be removed. If the IAC counts were goofy on a 4th gen the idle would surge all the time and not calm down, and the cars would die when coming to sudden stop. As I recall the MAX IAC correction was 25 (anyone else remember).

TPS: Senses the throttle position. with DBW not sure it works on these cars.

Going up a hill sometimes dies? Just turns off or chugs or what?

Before you go nuts changing stuff and buying stuff, Do some poking around. Look for burned wires around the exhaust. On the 4th gens the crank position wire ran down the passenger side by the headers, and if it burned the car would run weird. Call Ron @ Vengeance too, he's a good smart guy.

Maybe you can find someone local to scan the car for you.

I can datalog the car. It comes up with nothing out of the ordinary. Slight missfire in cylinder 3 but few and far between.

Fastlane CAI, TVS2300, Lont tubes, no cats, full exhaust.

Never dies driving it at any speed. Only at idle sometimes. I can tell if it might die because the idle gets so low. And I can tell if it's fine because idle is perfect.

[bmbbl be]

Originally Posted by Supercharged SS

Any chance you added a breather? My car had the same symptoms when we installed the breather. Ted needed to adjust the tune.

was that a breather with no check valve ?

[Badbubba]

A/C: since you have a cam, I believe the a/c compressor needed to removed for the install, or something similiar. That involves recovering the 134A from the a/c system. To get the system back up and running. The air needs evacuated from the system by the use of a vacuum pump. Then charged with 134A. It is usually states on he vehicle how many pounds of 134A the system will require. A scale is normally used while charging. It is possible that the system was overcharged. I believe the a/c system has a high pressure limit on the high pressure side of the compressor. The limit switch would be on the smaller of the 2 lines from the compressor, the line going to the condenser coil near your radiator. The hotter the weather the higher the pressure will be on the high side. So your a/c system may not be working on hot days due to high pressure. Have someone check the both the high side and low side pressure with a set of gauges.
Or, quite possibly, just a low charge.

[Higgs Boson]

Originally Posted by 1sikRS

If the fuel pump does crap out a zl1 pump will perform much better in our cars so I've read

only if you need more pump, otherwise, it won't make a single difference at all. you only need more pump if your fuel pressure is dropping under load because the pump can't supply the fuel the injectors are demanding to keep the AFR where the tune specifies it should be, so it's going lean even with the injectors working their ass off.

just throwing in a zl1 pump without the above happening isn't going to do anything at all.

[Dr Jkel]

Have you took your valve covers off and checked your rocker arms? Had that issue as well and caused mine to run rough.......mine had a messed up rocker tray ...mine would run like mad in higher rpms's...in the lower range not so much.

[Pro Stock John]

Originally Posted by PQ

I cut the AIT wires when I installed the blower. They get rerouted to the side of the Maggie. It get's the temps from inside now.

Fastlane CAI, TVS2300, Lont tubes, no cats, full exhaust.

Never dies driving it at any speed. Only at idle sometimes. I can tell if it might die because the idle gets so low. And I can tell if it's fine because idle is perfect.

AIT = inlet air temp?

Wires soldered? crimped? Latter might be coming on/off. It's happened to me.

I believe your problem is electrical.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Badbubba

A/C: since you have a cam, I believe the a/c compressor needed to removed for the install, or something similiar. That involves recovering the 134A from the a/c system. To get the system back up and running. The air needs evacuated from the system by the use of a vacuum pump. Then charged with 134A. It is usually states on he vehicle how many pounds of 134A the system will require. A scale is normally used while charging. It is possible that the system was overcharged. I believe the a/c system has a high pressure limit on the high pressure side of the compressor. The limit switch would be on the smaller of the 2 lines from the compressor, the line going to the condenser coil near your radiator. The hotter the weather the higher the pressure will be on the high side. So your a/c system may not be working on hot days due to high pressure. Have someone check the both the high side and low side pressure with a set of gauges.
Or, quite possibly, just a low charge.

I'll have it checked. Thank you. I doubt it's related but figured I better mention. LOL

Originally Posted by Higgs Boson

only if you need more pump, otherwise, it won't make a single difference at all. you only need more pump if your fuel pressure is dropping under load because the pump can't supply the fuel the injectors are demanding to keep the AFR where the tune specifies it should be, so it's going lean even with the injectors working their ass off.

just throwing in a zl1 pump without the above happening isn't going to do anything at all.

It will, however, make me feel better if I pulley down and add more power. Right now I"m using a stock pump- and a BAP. I"d still use both but would be able to go more power with piece of mind.

As far as this problem goes and my current system of course no. haha

Originally Posted by Dr Jkel

Have you took your valve covers off and checked your rocker arms? Had that issue as well and caused mine to run rough.......mine had a messed up rocker tray ...mine would run like mad in higher rpms's...in the lower range not so much.

Holy crap. Did it not make any noise?

Originally Posted by Pro Stock John

AIT = inlet air temp?

Wires soldered? crimped? Latter might be coming on/off. It's happened to me.

I believe your problem is electrical.

I had crimped them before. But Vengeance had to remove the blower when they did the cam and conversion. I'm not sure how they connected them back.

[Pro Stock John]

I'd check all factory wires that were cut and lengthened for the blower first. Driving could loosen a connection.

[Dr Jkel]

Originally Posted by PQ

Holy crap. Did it not make any noise?

No it did not make any noise whatsoever......Just a thought for you to look at...Mine was extremely loose and damaged the rocker tray...caused poor idling...mine died when the A/C was turned on sitting at a redlight.

And of course the A/C didn't want to work right at idle.

[Bell040]

Has noone mentioned raising the idle speed?

Try adding 100 RPM to your idle speed (Vengeance should be able to do this), and I bet the problems goes away.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Pro Stock John

I'd check all factory wires that were cut and lengthened for the blower first. Driving could loosen a connection.

Will do.

Originally Posted by Dr Jkel

No it did not make any noise whatsoever......Just a thought for you to look at...Mine was extremely loose and damaged the rocker tray...caused poor idling...mine died when the A/C was turned on sitting at a redlight.

And of course the A/C didn't want to work right at idle.

Damn. I sure hope that is not it. lol

This problem is absolutely identical to the problem I had before vengeance. So the header leak may have just been a coincidence. Hence Mikes joke earlier that I should forge the bottom end as a possible fix. Hell, I cammed it and did the LS3 conversion last time.

Originally Posted by Bell040

Has noone mentioned raising the idle speed?

Try adding 100 RPM to your idle speed (Vengeance should be able to do this), and I bet the problems goes away.

I thought about it but I am a little wierded out about why it would drop to a lower running rpm at times. I'm afraid I'd be masking the real issue?

[Pro Stock John]

Another thought, running on all 8 cylinders? You said misfires on #3, maybe pull plug, re-install, check plug wire and injectors are plugged all the way in?

On scanner any weird fuel trims? Like adding more fuel on one side of the engine? That can point to leaks.

[Higgs Boson]

raising the idle speed will also require retuning the idle airflow, lol. choosing an appropriate idle speed is step one. tuning the airflow and timing is step two. if you don't, it will just bounce at the new idle speed.

[Nvincent4708]

sounds like some of your lower MAF table values are wrong.. most the time the car will never hit these.. but when it surges down low real quick.. they won't recover because the values are so far off.

or could be the throttle cracker in the tune. that helps the car not stall.