New NHRA rules?? roll cage

[Camarojt]

I think that every track is going to have a different interpretation right now of the word unaltered!
My personal opinion is I would agree with Dan. Unaltered "should" mean a stock firewall or floor pan! It shouldn't have anything to do with bone stock vs modded as in headers, CAI, converter, blower, or wheels, unless the combination of the mods makes your car go 9.99 or quicker or over 135mph. Then YES I can see where the ET OR MPH warrants additional safety.
But how can a person rationalize that a bone stock ZL1 that runs under 11.5 is ANY safer than a ZL1 that has a few mods and runs 11.2? The car is still the same damn car! Speed should be the only valid point as to WHEN the rule should be implemented!

However there is a difference between what would be a saf"ER" idea and what is "required" by NHRA! If you are one of those guys that wants a cage or roll bar bc it makes you feel the added safety, then by all means, install one.
But for the NHRA to justify the rule by saying that ONLY BONE STOCK cars can run under 11.50 is RIDICULOUS!
Add a CAI and you are just wreck less!! Smdh

[camarovigoa]

Originally Posted by Camarojt

I think that every track is going to have a different interpretation right now of the word unaltered!
My personal opinion is I would agree with Dan. Unaltered "should" mean a stock firewall or floor pan! It shouldn't have anything to do with bone stock vs modded as in headers, CAI, converter, blower, or wheels, unless the combination of the mods makes your car go 9.99 or quicker or over 135mph. Then YES I can see where the ET OR MPH warrants additional safety.
But how can a person rationalize that a bone stock ZL1 that runs under 11.5 is ANY safer than a ZL1 that has a few mods and runs 11.2? The car is still the same damn car! Speed should be the only valid point as to WHEN the rule should be implemented!

However there is a difference between what would be a saf"ER" idea and what is "required" by NHRA! If you are one of those guys that wants a cage or roll bar bc it makes you feel the added safety, then by all means, install one.
But for the NHRA to justify the rule by saying that ONLY BONE STOCK cars can run under 11.50 is RIDICULOUS!
Add a CAI and you are just wreck less!! Smdh

Totally agree!

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Camarojt

I think that every track is going to have a different interpretation right now of the word unaltered!
My personal opinion is I would agree with Dan. Unaltered "should" mean a stock firewall or floor pan! It shouldn't have anything to do with bone stock vs modded as in headers, CAI, converter, blower, or wheels, unless the combination of the mods makes your car go 9.99 or quicker or over 135mph. Then YES I can see where the ET OR MPH warrants additional safety.

Perhaps the powers-that-be recognize that there are folks who build cars capable of far higher performance and stand on the brakes to avoid being "up-classed" or kicked off the track. Just because a car capable of 9.4's never officially breaks 10.0 doesn't mean that his risk of a breakage-caused incident is any less.

But how can a person rationalize that a bone stock ZL1 that runs under 11.5 is ANY safer than a ZL1 that has a few mods and runs 11.2? The car is still the same damn car! Speed should be the only valid point as to WHEN the rule should be implemented!

The point here is that when you draw a yes-no line in the sand, you have to pick a place to put it . . . and not waver on your decision. No matter where such a dividing line is placed there will always be a narrow range of performance around that point where only a tiny performance increment will suddenly invoke the higher requirement. This cannot be avoided.

BTW, your earlier suggestion of 9.99/135 - would technically require a car running 9.98 or 135.1 to incorporate the greater safety requirements where a 9.996 or 134.9 car could still compete without them. That's really no different than 11.2 vs 11.5, just differences in where the "line" was drawn.

But for the NHRA to justify the rule by saying that ONLY BONE STOCK cars can run under 11.50 is RIDICULOUS!
Add a CAI and you are just wreck less!! Smdh

You need to try to think like a rule-maker rather than a competitor here. It may not be the amount of performance improvement that matters as much as the administrative headache involved with keeping track of the "legality" of each and every possible mod for a variety of cars, and keeping the tracks up to date on all this. Not to mention guessing ahead of time what folks might try to do under the guise of calling a mod one thing while it might have a significant secondary benefit not mentioned. Racers can get pretty darn creative.

Clearly the NHRA does NOT want to get involved with endless discussions, arguments, and decisions about whether any given alteration (aka "mod") is enough to require the greater protection. Or from there into every new variation of each mod (because some racers will always try to squeak things through any perceived loophole or "gray area"). It's easier and a whole lot less work to simply take a "thou shalt not" position and be done with it. That the playing field stays closer to level than it would with the door left open for "minor mods" is actually a benefit.


This ruling has the same "feel" as SCCA's basic position on allowed modifications for any given Solo (autocross) class - if the rules do not specifically allow you to [do whatever specific mod], then it is not allowed [in whatever class]. People always have and always will grumble about it, just like what I'm reading in this thread. But it works.


Norm

[Camarojt]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Perhaps the powers-that-be recognize that there are folks who build cars capable of far higher performance and stand on the brakes to avoid being "up-classed" or kicked off the track. Just because a car capable of 9.4's never officially breaks 10.0 doesn't mean that his risk of a breakage-caused incident is any less.


The point here is that when you draw a yes-no line in the sand, you have to pick a place to put it . . . and not waver on your decision. No matter where such a dividing line is placed there will always be a narrow range of performance around that point where only a tiny performance increment will suddenly invoke the higher requirement. This cannot be avoided.

BTW, your earlier suggestion of 9.99/135 - would technically require a car running 9.98 or 135.1 to incorporate the greater safety requirements where a 9.996 or 134.9 car could still compete without them. That's really no different than 11.2 vs 11.5, just differences in where the "line" was drawn.


You need to try to think like a rule-maker rather than a competitor here. It may not be the amount of performance improvement that matters as much as the administrative headache involved with keeping track of the "legality" of each and every possible mod for a variety of cars, and keeping the tracks up to date on all this. Not to mention guessing ahead of time what folks might try to do under the guise of calling a mod one thing while it might have a significant secondary benefit not mentioned. Racers can get pretty darn creative.

Clearly the NHRA does NOT want to get involved with endless discussions, arguments, and decisions about whether any given alteration (aka "mod") is enough to require the greater protection. Or from there into every new variation of each mod (because some racers will always try to squeak things through any perceived loophole or "gray area"). It's easier and a whole lot less work to simply take a "thou shalt not" position and be done with it. That the playing field stays closer to level than it would with the door left open for "minor mods" is actually a benefit.


This ruling has the same "feel" as SCCA's basic position on allowed modifications for any given Solo (autocross) class - if the rules do not specifically allow you to [do whatever specific mod], then it is not allowed [in whatever class]. People always have and always will grumble about it, just like what I'm reading in this thread. But it works.


Norm

Valid points, but my example on the ZL1 was only to illustrate that their should be no rule that involves what mods you have UNLESS you modify the firewall or floor pan.
The times I spit out are irrelevant.
Besides....they are the ones that threw out the 9.99 and 135 limits. And in that case, yes...you still could split hairs over why a 9.99 car is any safer than a 9.98 car? And I do agree that they have to put the rule in place somewhere.
So being that THEY came out and declared it at 9.99 and slower, my discussion is only direction at the definition of "unaltered."
Also the 1st example you gave could indeed be an issue, but again...if he is hitting the brakes, then he isn't breaking THEIR ET OR SPEED REQUIREMENTS?
Once he does ever break that rule, then you enforce it and require him to get a cage! But I agree, it doesn't make his car any more or less dangerous? They just need to leave it at 9.99 and 135 and be done with the rest. How you get there is irrelevant. My airbags and seat belts work exactly the same whether I'm bone stock going 11.00 or if I'm modded going 11.00!
Pick a time and be done. And that will end the debate or discussion about "this mod being ok or that mod won't?" Mods shouldn't matter unless its to the firewall or floor pan. ET and mph is the only thing that should.
Hell if they wanna pick 11.49 or faster as the rule, then that's fine, make a stand and say ALL CARS going 11.49 or faster need X Y or Z safety requirements. But then why would a stock ZR1 Vette from the factory, be any safer than a slightly modded Vette at 4000ft DA running the same time??

[camarovigoa]

Called the NHRA and IHRA they told me ''Unaltered" Means OEM body and Firewall

[Camarojt]

Originally Posted by camarovigoa

Called the NHRA and IHRA they told me ''Unaltered" Means OEM body and Firewall

And there is the answer!! Boom!

[camarovigoa]

Originally Posted by GMRULZ

Any idea where to find out what is allowed under this Street Legal class and what is not?

Street Legal Style: What to expect


When you get to an NHRA Member Track for an NHRA Drags Street Legal Style presented by AAA event, you’ll pay your entry fee and get a tech card. Fill out your information on the tech card and proceed to the tech area to submit your car for safety inspection. The tech staff and track officials will inspect your car to make sure you meet the racing safety requirements. Some of the safety requirements include:

Seat Belts
Working headlights and taillights
Safe, DOT-Approved tires
Secured Battery
Must be wearing long pants (no nylon), sleeved shirt, closed-toe shoes and socks when making your run.
Helmets and additional safety equipment may be required.
Contact your local track for specifics; they are more than willing to help you determine if your vehicle meets the requirements.

What do I need to participate?*
Check with your local NHRA member track for its requirements, but generally, you can expect to be expected to provide proof of the following:
A valid driver's license
Valid vehicle registration and insurance
DOT-approved street legal tires
Seat belts
Muffler
If using nitrous, nitrous-oxide bottles must be stamped as meeting DOT 1,800-pound standards *Requirements may vary
What to expect at the track Step-by-Step
Entry: When you enter the track, you'll receive a tech card after paying your entry/participation fee.
Tech: After completing your tech card, you'll drive your vehicle to tech, where a simple safety inspection will be performed on your car.
Registration: You'll then check in at racer registration, where you'll sign a release form and show your valid driver's license.
Staging lanes: Once you're registered, drive to the rear of the staging lanes and get ready to race. See tips on Staging your vehicle.
Race: When it's time for you to race, an official will motion to you. Do a burnout if you'd like, or drive around the water box and get ready to stage. When both cars are ready, you'll stage using the Christmas Tree. At the end of your run, slow down and exit properly.
Timing booth: After your run, you'll pick up your time slip at the timing booth to see how your vehicle performed. Then return to the pits to get ready for more runs.
Where can I race?
NHRA has more than 140 member tracks across the United States and in Canada and Mexico. For more information about an NHRA Street Legal program in your community, contact your local NHRA Member Track.

[camarovigoa]

Originally Posted by Camarojt

And there is the answer!! Boom!

Yeah!

[Mr. Nasty]

Ok with approved helmet and DOT DR running 10.38 @ 133 is good to go. But with slicks on the same time no good??

[camarovigoa]

Originally Posted by Mr. Nasty

Ok with approved helmet and DOT DR running 10.38 @ 133 is good to go. But with slicks on the same time no good??

They said tire change was fine they weren't specific on your type of tire when I talked to them so slicks should be fine I think the street legal is the actual class they run

[Trackman]

Originally Posted by camarovigoa

Well you need it no matter what...

I have just as much fun running 10.40's 50's on a street tune. I would need a cage for sure if I crank it up anymore. That is not happening.

[Trackman]

Originally Posted by camarovigoa

Called the NHRA and IHRA they told me ''Unaltered" Means OEM body and Firewall

Have them put it in a email with a NHRA or IHRA letterhead. Then post it so we can all have a copy to show are local track officials.

[camarovigoa]

Originally Posted by Trackman

Have them put it in a email with a NHRA or IHRA letterhead. Then post it so we can all have a copy to show are local track officials.

That sounds like a good idea! Ill call again tomorrow and ask for an email!

[2sscamaro11]

Originally Posted by camarovigoa

Called the NHRA and IHRA they told me ''Unaltered" Means OEM body and Firewall

Dumb question...are you allowed to run a cowl hood or would that be considered an aftermarket body?