Got the IPF tune today!

[hapisok]

Giving tunes away? Hardly. How many tunes do you think they "gave away" during r&d of their software? Sometimes you have to spend a little to make the money, its called marketing. Marketing and advertisement that can be written off so there is no "loss". Anyhow...that doesn't matter. You can ask all the pointed questions you want...but the results of hard work speak louder than words or text ever will.

Why do pointed questions need to be made in private? We're all big boys and girls here...its what they call discussion. The questions you have could answer the same questions for 20 other people, which i'm sure the vendors have better things to do than answer the same 20 questions on a daily basis. I disagree with your statement about vendor cost/expenses when promoting and PROVING their claims. The forum is here for open discussion, not just pretty sig blocks.

But then again...you have been IPF'd so your statements are biased.

Its hard to sort out facts without data. Just because a group of people agree that there is a mother ship coming to take them away doesn't make it fact. I am trying to gather data on IPF's product, as they haven't exactly offered up the data until they are asked...so the lack of data makes it difficult to make an informed decision.

[Macrackie]

All the lambda this and that has made my head spin like the exorsist. Way over my head but the best part is a few months from now it will be all hammered out, proven and the general dumb people like me can just buy it with out thinking.

Currently I sit happy that I only spent like 300 bucks for my trifecta tune. This way it doesn't hurt my feelings to switch to the ipf when it proves to be the one.

[Taintedveins]

Originally Posted by Macrackie

All the lambda this and that has made my head spin like the exorsist. Way over my head but the best part is a few months from now it will be all hammered out, proven and the general dumb people like me can just buy it with out thinking.

Currently I sit happy that I only spent like 300 bucks for my trifecta tune. This way it doesn't hurt my feelings to switch to the ipf when it proves to be the one.

This thread needs a caution sign.

[Nutbutt]

Typically these tunes were generated originally on vendors owned cars. Yes they do give a few away but these guys are in the business to make money. Remember this is a vendor sponsored forum. They are here to sell their product.
If you are truly interested in these V6 tunes I would think you would call these companies to compare. Like you alluded to, not everything is the truth on the internet. Yes I have an IPF system on my vert. But I also have bought RX equipment for my coupe. Both are good companies but I made choices on who got my business by going through these forums then cut through all the BS by calling and actually seeing their work.
Like I said before a head to head independent comparison would be great but I doubt it will happen and even if it does there are those that still will whine that there was bias. Just like your statement about me when you have no idea what I did to compare before I bought. I guess I now question your motive considering your sig is V8 ?

Originally Posted by hapisok

Giving tunes away? Hardly. How many tunes do you think they "gave away" during r&d of their software? Sometimes you have to spend a little to make the money, its called marketing. Marketing and advertisement that can be written off so there is no "loss". Anyhow...that doesn't matter. You can ask all the pointed questions you want...but the results of hard work speak louder than words or text ever will.

Why do pointed questions need to be made in private? We're all big boys and girls here...its what they call discussion. The questions you have could answer the same questions for 20 other people, which i'm sure the vendors have better things to do than answer the same 20 questions on a daily basis. I disagree with your statement about vendor cost/expenses when promoting and PROVING their claims. The forum is here for open discussion, not just pretty sig blocks.

But then again...you have been IPF'd so your statements are biased.

Its hard to sort out facts without data. Just because a group of people agree that there is a mother ship coming to take them away doesn't make it fact. I am trying to gather data on IPF's product, as they haven't exactly offered up the data until they are asked...so the lack of data makes it difficult to make an informed decision.

[KMPrenger]

I don't know about tunes on test cars from owners, but I do know that IPF ran their N/a tune for a good while and at least a few thousand miles on their own V6 Camaro which they used for their SC development.

Originally Posted by Nutbutt

. I guess I now question your motive considering your sig is V8 ?

I guess you never know what motive there could be, but I give Hapisok credit b/c he was a V6 owner, and did some good things for the community. He is a smart fellow, so I listen when he talks, and then make up my mind whether to believe what he is saying lol. (just a little joke there at the end!)

I'm running Trifecta up to this day. Still no real issues that I'm aware of, but honestly could I really 100% say it is safe? Heck no I couldn't. I just bought it b/c I wanted a damn tune and it was all their was, and it was on sale!

Is the IPF tune safe? Well I don't know but as said before this discussion helps us make that decision. I would go as far as say that the IPF tune in their SC application has seen more success and less issues (that I know of) versus the Trifecta option. Might sound like I'm bashing here, but I'm not...just stating how it is.

[hapisok]

seriously, you should tread lightly when you start to make statements that elude to me promoting one vendor over the other. i know exactly what your getting at...RX and TRIFECTA are their own entity but the vendors do work closely together Yes I have an IPF system on my vert. But I also have bought RX equipment for my coupe. Both are good companies but I made choices on who got my business by going through these forums then cut through all the BS by calling and actually seeing their work. i have made NO such statement i seriously have no bias of one over the other.

you've completely missed the points and questions that i've brought to IPF and you seem to have taken it a bit personal. the questions are not for me...i don't own a V6 anymore, so how am i effected? the questions are to get answers for the rest of the community. but if you think everybody else should be in the dark unless they know what questions to ask...then ok...be that way.

i wish HPTuner or EFI live were open to all platforms...then it would come down to the tuner and we could do away with this petty bs. im not trying to bash anybody here...but IPF is new and there hasn't been much independent testing outside of the IPF realm of vendors. i had trifecta previously and it worked...got the job done. was i satisfied with it...no. it still needed development and they have come a long way in doing so.

being a vendor sponsored site doesn't mean the product they sell is legit or safe or even proven...just means they are generating revenue for the host by paying dues as long as they can get you to buy their product and produce a profit. i could be a sponsor on here and not sell a damn thing, so does that make my credibility go up? hell no!

this is not a vendor vs vendor or bashing of any kind. there should be NO personal feelings in this. i've done nothing but simply asked some legit questions looking for legit answers.

btw KM, i got your joke! thought it was pretty funny (haha funny). glad you finally got a tune on that beast. i know you kicked that one around for a long time. and good job on holding out for a decent price too!

[Nutbutt]

STFU ? Not a problem. But with that attitude anything anyone says wont effect your judgement. If you want to know about the IPF tune ask those that have it. You obviously don't believe the company. I have no affiliation with them but I do have the tune and can vouch for the performance gains from it.

[ASH@IPF-TUNING]

Hello !

here my statements to clear dangerous half knowledge about the fuel adaptation system used in all bosch petrol ECUs ME3,ME7,ME9 and MED17:

FAS = fuel adaptation system

LTFT = Longterm fueltrim

1) the FAS uses various memory cells to store the LTFT values for various load and rpm ranges ... all memory cells were checked against each other , a massive deviation between the LTFT cells is freezing all FAS values and giving a CEL for adaptaion fault !

2) for every diffrent load and rpm range is the specific FAS memory cell used that is reponsible for that certain load and rpm range .. so that the LTFT for low idle can NOT influence the LTFT for the full load range !!

3) when the LTFT in the highes load and rpm cell is +5% , then this 5% will be ADDED to ALL injection times after the internal ECU correction maps in the output driver of the injector driver .. so the exhaust is exactly 5% richer then under normal conditions with 0% LTFT ... the same but 5% leaner appears at LTFT -5% !!

4) So here is the main question : why is the LTFT running away ... that can be because of various reasons ... fuel pressure dropped down because of bad fuel pressure regulator or worn out fuel pump ... AFM sensor can be damadged by oil spray .. excessive heat .. corrosion ... ect..

5) in all Bosch System is the AFM the MAIN load signal and this AFM signal is used for ALL calculation of injection cycles ... the adatation is used to calculate a correction factor ( LTFT ) fo rthe complete fuel system !
Based on the REAL measured air flow the ECU is calculating the injection time based on the desired LAMBDA maps for normal driving requests ... full load mechanical component protection and full load catalytic converter protection..
A bigger CAI with only 5mm more inner diameter will cause a wrong air flow measurement of -8% to -10% .. that will be corrected by the FAS without having any negative effects on power or economy ... as long as the adaptation fault limits were not reached !

6) the FAS is switched OFF under following conditions : non constant driving conditions ... detected misfiring ... full load ... cold engine coolant temp .... ect.

8) internally we TEST every basic software in the IPF-TUNING group on the road and on our dynos .. Dynojet in Shanghai ... TAT singel drum in Germany and Mustang 4x4 in Arizona .. with diffrent fuel qualities and diffrent hardware setups like intakes .. cams and headers .. so we exactly know what to do when a car has a special setup to create the tuning for that application !

7) we own the complete Bosch ECU ME961 function description and that document is over 5400 pages ... nearly 10% is the FAS system with all its tests .. fault codes ... rediness code builds ... massive information to read !

So if somebody has a special quesion about fuel system and adaptations and tuning in general ... dont hazitate to discuss that item !

greets ASH@IPF-TUNING

[hapisok]

Ash,

Excellent post and thank you for taking the time to break down the Bosch ECU. I'll re-read through this post again to make sure I didn't miss anything.

Again, thanks as I understand it takes time to put that info together.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by hapisok

...but IPF is new and there hasn't been much independent testing outside of the IPF realm of vendors.

Well, they may be sort of new to our community, but to the Bosch ECM world, I believe they have a very large amount of time and experience.

Originally Posted by hapisok

...btw KM, i got your joke! thought it was pretty funny (haha funny). glad you finally got a tune on that beast. i know you kicked that one around for a long time. and good job on holding out for a decent price too!

I've had the tune for a year or two now actually...I think its been that long lol. It was from the very first sale they had on it, which was a very long time ago.

But that may change eventually. Well see.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by ASH@IPF-TUNING

....

So if somebody has a special quesion about fuel system and adaptations and tuning in general ... dont hazitate to discuss that item !

greets ASH@IPF-TUNING

Thanks again Arno!!

[hapisok]

True, I do remember them having a bosch background when they first came on the C5 scene. But that was about all I knew of IPF.

[ASH@IPF-TUNING]

Hello !

IPF-TUNING was new in the Camaro-Community since 1.5 years now .. thats true ... EDS-MOTORSPORT and EVOMS worked together the last 5 years together in the Porsche Audi VW Lambogini Market and we created the IPF TUNING SC kit for the Camaro V6 because there was NOTHING equal in the market and we did the same job before at 3.6 DFI Porsche 997 .... !

Worldwide IPF-TUNING we had the following IPFs and Tunings in the market :

since 2009 our server system registrated :

2977 customer-IPF aktiv
284 dealer-IPF aktiv
7326 vehicles activated
27394 customer programmings done
12326 dealer programmings done

IPF-system was launched 2006 ... after 2 years development time in hard and software ....

Min 50% is Bosch all Petrol and diesel engines ... 40% is delco all petrol NA and Turbo versions .. rest is Siemens Marrelli and Denso !

IPF system can identify and programm 45 ECU types and we have actually more then 25.000 Tuningfiles online .. worldwide acsessble !

Now its time to offer tuning solutions for all the nice 1.4T 1.6T and 2.0 T engines that were developed from OPEL Powertrain in Germany near our front door ... and these engines were NOW also used in the US market ... lets go !

So we are NO beginner in the tuning world ! :flag2:

Greets ASH@IPF-TUNING

[hapisok]

Originally Posted by Nutbutt

STFU ? Not a problem. But with that attitude anything anyone says wont effect your judgement. If you want to know about the IPF tune ask those that have it. You obviously don't believe the company. I have no affiliation with them but I do have the tune and can vouch for the performance gains from it.

i am a very open minded person and there is nothing to judge when the facts are laid on the table, only a decision on whats right for you. am i skeptical and have a questioning attitude/thought process? HELL YES! as should everyone else. there is a lot i don't know and im trying to learn more and understand at the same time. do i care what the actual performance gains are (those will vary from dyno to dyno, customer to customer, and pump to pump), absolutely! but im more interested in how those gains are made. they could tune the shit out of the ECU to put down some crazy HP/TQ, but that doesn't mean it is a safe tune. completely disable the knock sensors...HIGH RPMS and some bad gas and your done! but hell, it looked good on the dyno! vouching for performance gains...ok, kewl. then what data do you have to back up the gains?

and no, im not going to direct pointed questions to a customer, unless of course that customer has a decent knowledge base and interest in what is going on. and im not talkin about some guy chasing numbers i want to know the answers straight up...so im going directly to the source. what is your depth of knowledge when it comes to tuning? let alone the tune on your vehicle? do you monitor the parameters that your engine is operating at or do you put all your trust in your tuner that things are good? are you able to answer the questions i asked? im not trying to insult you, but asking based on your reasoning as to how i should direct my line of questioning when most people have no clue what im talking about is ridiculous. even though i trust my tuner to have the calibration set correctly on my camaro, while having a good relationship personally with the shop, i still take the time to research, understand, and monitor what is going on under the hood. it is my vehicle and my investment, i am the one responsible for its well being.

you do have an affiliation with them...you paid them thousands of dollars for a service, of course they are going to be nice guys and you have a bias toward them. would you give your money to somebody you didn't like? chances are, if they were complete 's, you wouldn't think twice about paying out that kind of money. hell, if you had $6-7,000 to give me, i'd be your best friend for a bit too. maybe even take you out for a cold beer . i believe in a company that will back up their claims through more than just customer "butt dyno's" and "yeah, they're nice guys!". for instance, look at vararam, they are widely respected on the forum and across different platforms. they have spent tons of dollars in R&D with independent 3rd party testing and have faced scrutiny by the masses on certain products. skeptics that simply choose not to believe that something can work because they don't understand how it works. but none the less, it was proved...even by the skeptics. EVERYTHING is up for questioning! so no, im not just going to take your word when you vouch for IPF...let IPF provide the data so everyone else can make their own informed decision. but your word does count as a customer and community member.

there will be more discussion on this as the IPF fan base broadens...and more info is put out. i can't wait to see how these tunes stack up against each other on the dyno and the 1/4 mi. im sure they will each have their own pro's and con's...not necessarily "this one is better". the options for the LLT aren't stopping and that is AWESOME!

i have nothing against IPF and have nothing derogatory to say about them. from what i've seen so far, they seem decent and have had a rough welcome to the community. its tough in here and there will always be scrutiny with new products or competition. they've come on here and answered some questions and taken the time to explain things they didn't have to and i have a lot of respect for that

IPF is answering those questions and i thank them for taking the time to educate myself and everyone else here.



sorry OP, didn't mean to thread jack. im gonna STFU now and let you guys get back to doing your thing...

best of luck to you guys and hopefully some independent side by side testing soon.