[B84GTX]

Hahaha

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by 90503

All good points. And no matter how much blow-back or bad press gm and it's subscription plans recieve, they are here to stay. All EVs have to offer is software tech and upgrades that they will try and portray as popular.

Their business model (and EVs) are clones of X-Box, NetFlix, etc. The cars themselves have little to offer, so the Smart-Phone and gaming mentality are the new "mods". EVs are no longer cars with any pride of ownership.

The revenue from subscriptions for gm is in the billions.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...s/69692210007/

To be clear, connectivity has nothing to do with a vehicle being electric. GM has been able to download software for years with OnStar. It's just not a great platform to do it. GM was first, just not the best. And for those that don't have OnStar, they can shut your car down if it's stolen......now. Nothing to do with EVs.

EVs will have plenty of pride of ownership. It just won't come from vroom vroom sounds. Other than that an EV will quietly do everything your current car does. And I would bet the owners of the GMC Hummer or Lyriq are quite proud of their cars. I would be.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Number 3

To be clear, connectivity has nothing to do with a vehicle being electric. GM has been able to download software for years with OnStar. It's just not a great platform to do it. GM was first, just not the best. And for those that don't have OnStar, they can shut your car down if it's stolen......now. Nothing to do with EVs.

EVs will have plenty of pride of ownership. It just won't come from vroom vroom sounds. Other than that an EV will quietly do everything your current car does. And I would bet the owners of the GMC Hummer or Lyriq are quite proud of their cars. I would be.

I never said connectivity is only for EVs. Connectivity and subscriptions are two different things.

What subscriptions do ICE car and truck owners have to pay for now that limits the performance of power or convenience features?

On-Star went from a voluntary to mandatory subscription! Not enough wanted to pay for it, so they make it mandatory. What we have seen so far is child's play for subscriptions.

The EV future will be subscriptions on steroids. The mind-set and technology is a hand in glove for subscriptions and EVs. It's a soft-sell to say that ICE is the same. Not even close. All gms past attempts with ICE to make On-Star a popular feature have failed. Yet they still double-down on it. Good luck trying to make it look like an ICE feature, or the same as smart-phones. It won't be.

Pride of ownership won't come from subscribing to features you already paid for in the purchase of the vehicle. No-one could have pride of ownership in something like a vehicle that they never stop paying for or never fully own. Subscriptions are a part of the EV charade gm is betting on for a revenue stream from suckers that don't know how to determine what they do or don't own.

[Martinjlm]

There are a number of “great ideas” moving forward in the auto industry right now. One is transitioning from ICE to BEV. Another is Connectivity. They are independent. Neither one requires or benefits the other.

The main reason we have not seen many subscription options for ICE vehicles is because the companies that are working on this the hardest are also transitioning to BEV and they are working on implementing this for their future product portfolios. Which just happen to be BEV.

BMW has already started using OTA subscription protocols on some of their ICE products, just not in the US. Yet. One thing they have done globally is for some of their M series products they have a prescribed break-in process that requires returning to the BMW dealer for a final specific service, at which point BMW will load the cals that increase engine output and extend the redline. GM does something similar with C8, but you don’t have to go to the dealer. Once you’ve followed the break-in process the redline mysteriously increases to the final, higher level.

[genxer]

Similar to the SS 1LE initial hp limit to 350ish.

'Pride of ownership' isn't quite the right term. It's hot rod guys realizing self-respect after seeing others herded toward 'pride of non-ownership'.

What marketing pushed BEV's offer a no-connectivity ownership? I suspect none, and that conflation is intended. Subscriptions are just incremental after the acquiescing to data connectivity.

[RagingHawk]

Get in contact with your state legislators/elected officials and lobby them. There needs to be a car club where everyone can contribute and meet with elected officials to introduce bills to ban subscription based features in vehicles. Especially for hardware features. Only things like Super Cruise can be subscription based, nothing else.

It's already happening in the state of New Jersey.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by RagingHawk

Get in contact with your state legislators/elected officials and lobby them. There needs to be a car club where everyone can contribute and meet with elected officials to introduce bills to ban subscription based features in vehicles. Especially for hardware features. Only things like Super Cruise can be subscription based, nothing else.

It's already happening in the state of New Jersey.

That's actually one way of preempting the general transformation of private ownership into remote controlled "licensing" that can be revoked or altered at will, with zero input or consent on the customer's part. It may become an absolute must as time goes on.

[Alan47717]

Originally Posted by 90503

I never said connectivity is only for EVs. Connectivity and subscriptions are two different things.

What subscriptions do ICE car and truck owners have to pay for now that limits the performance of power or convenience features?

On-Star went from a voluntary to mandatory subscription! Not enough wanted to pay for it, so they make it mandatory. What we have seen so far is child's play for subscriptions.

The EV future will be subscriptions on steroids. The mind-set and technology is a hand in glove for subscriptions and EVs. It's a soft-sell to say that ICE is the same. Not even close. All gms past attempts with ICE to make On-Star a popular feature have failed. Yet they still double-down on it. Good luck trying to make it look like an ICE feature, or the same as smart-phones. It won't be.

Pride of ownership won't come from subscribing to features you already paid for in the purchase of the vehicle. No-one could have pride of ownership in something like a vehicle that they never stop paying for or never fully own. Subscriptions are a part of the EV charade gm is betting on for a revenue stream from suckers that don't know how to determine what they do or don't own.

When did OnStar become mandatory? It wasn't on my 2022 1LT.

[NYTMARE23]

Originally Posted by Alan47717

When did OnStar become mandatory? It wasn't on my 2022 1LT.

Good question. I'm not paying for it on my 2023 ZL1, wasn't part of my "car deal" at the dealership and the window sticker doesn't say it's mandatory??? Only thing my window sticker says is "OnStar Services and WiFi Hotspot capable(See OnStar.com for terms)" Pretty sure it's NOT mandatory...

[90503]

Originally Posted by Alan47717

When did OnStar become mandatory? It wasn't on my 2022 1LT.

https://www.google.com/search?q=gm+m...client=gws-wiz

Even with this pr disaster, it's still full speed ahead with plans for future subscriptions for gm.

[Anjilslaire]

GMC & Buick. Not Chevrolet.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Anjilslaire

GMC & Buick. Not Chevrolet.

It got nipped in the bud before it could spread into all the other brands. I think now it's a 3 month free trial...then you can subscribe. Should never have been made mandatory on any gm brand. It may still be mandatory on certain "hi-end" models.

They won't let it go. A lot of threads about how it never quits acquiring your data unless you jump through hoops to get them to stop. Even then, you never know.

On-Star is their connectivity gate-way for all their planned subscriptions.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

That's actually one way of preempting the general transformation of private ownership into remote controlled "licensing" that can be revoked or altered at will, with zero input or consent on the customer's part. It may become an absolute must as time goes on.

You’ve assumed too much here.

They will NOT alter or change anything you haven’t agreed to.

Now they may get clever with their language when you purchase, but you will have agreed to everything they have the ability to do.

And do not forget you likely carry a device around with you all day that does far more snooping on you than your car ever will. And that device can be shut down or altered at any time as well. Just funny no one is complaining about that device. There is a reason why Apple and Google are worth a Billion dollars each. For Google? It’s the data. It’s what they sell.

[Martinjlm]

I read something this morning that reminded me of the other reason GM may be heading this direction. First of all, no foolin’ it’s at least 90% about the subscription revenue. But here’s something I had forgotten about. Apple is working on upcoming versions of CarPlay that will self generate your instrument cluster and deliver vehicle based information such as mph, rpm, fuel / charge status et cetera. Some part of this might be GM saying “Apple, stay the hell out of my vehicle control modules.”