Camaro 'Muscle car' shows weak planning, NDP says

[fireresq157]

I kept emailing GM not to build the Camaro in Canada , do it back in the USA that’s what I said. Did they listen? nope. I like Canadians I’m sure most disagree with the above statement but Just like tens of thousand if not millions of them waste millions of gallons of fuel driving down instead of flying commercial to Florida and other parts of the south each year(were overrun by them in the winter). Stop being hypocrites’. .

[SScattergunSS]

Originally Posted by MerF

Yes, I am still convinced all of our leftist ideals come from the left side of the country (by left, I mean west of course). I still would not be at all disappointed if California broke off from the rest of the country and we could all see just how screwed up a completely hard left society would be.

I've got to just throw this out there. There still are some good people out here in California. But the biggest problem is L.A and S.F.!!! Those two areas control the entire state. Their politicians are absolutely worthless!!! Truthfully, I don't think I'd care if they became the 51st and 52nd states, and just left the rest of us to be good ole California. At least we'd be free...for awhile....

Here's an idea for the whole country. Get the laws changed to prevent EACH AND EVERY elected politician to serve longer than two terms...period!!! I really think that would go a long way to stop corruption!!!!!!!!

Also, while I love the Electoral College, each states Electoral votes should be broken up proportionally. The two Senatorial votes should go to the winner, while the rest of the votes get broken up proportionally. As far as California goes, it's just wrong that all 55 votes get dished out in a winner takes all system! Regardless which side your on, that's a heck of alot of people who's voices aren't heard! In fact, neither candidate even campaigned here, because the outcome was already known!

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by fireresq157

I kept emailing GM not to build the Camaro in Canada , do it back in the USA that’s what I said. Did they listen? nope. I like Canadians I’m sure most disagree with the above statement but Just like tens of thousand if not millions of them waste millions of gallons of fuel driving down instead of flying commercial to Florida and other parts of the south each year(were overrun by them in the winter). Stop being hypocrites’. .

That's something that GM could do if they had a bunch of money. A big F-you to this idiot politician. There goes a ton of Oshawa's products...

[OUR72GTO]

Originally Posted by fireresq157

I kept emailing GM not to build the Camaro in Canada , do it back in the USA that’s what I said. Did they listen? nope. I like Canadians I’m sure most disagree with the above statement but Just like tens of thousand if not millions of them waste millions of gallons of fuel driving down instead of flying commercial to Florida and other parts of the south each year(were overrun by them in the winter). Stop being hypocrites’. .

Looks like your driving an F body... Made in Canada.

When they "drive down" in the millions
they are supporting commerce all the way with hotels, food,gas and taxes. Then they wear out that car and buy another one from GM.

Your welcome to come up and spend your money here.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by fireresq157

I kept emailing GM not to build the Camaro in Canada , do it back in the USA that’s what I said. Did they listen? nope. I like Canadians I’m sure most disagree with the above statement but Just like tens of thousand if not millions of them waste millions of gallons of fuel driving down instead of flying commercial to Florida and other parts of the south each year(were overrun by them in the winter). Stop being hypocrites’. .

Canadians all think the same eh? Paint them all with the same brush why don't ya. As far as Oshawa getting the Camaro, it is the highest quality/productive plant that GM has. They deserve to get it, plain and simple. BTW - how do you like your Z4C?

[SSmoked]

also coming in this thread with info on the NDP. they are a bunch of losers. yes losers who nag at everything and come up with dumbass exuses to get rid of them. mcginty is the toronto mayer and is a complete goof ball who only cares for him self and not the citezens of toronto( ill start anyother thread on his stupidity). basic these a$$holes need to do their research before they start running their mouths. and whatever they say about the natural economy is bs(again ill bring up another thread on their stupidity). another thing why are they compreing a civic to a camaro, these politicans DONT DRIVE HONDA'S!! so they shouldnt be comparing.

and dont be suprised if our dumbass toronto mayer does something stupid involving the camaro. and im serious about that

[super60]

Ok everyone take a deep breath and relax. The Federal and Provincal NDP do not speak for the vast majority of us here in Canada. They are extreme left leaning and have little support among the Oshawa GM workers. I say this because i work on the Camaro flex line and have a very good feel for the political views of the different workers in my area. As for the anti-canadian rant that some of the posters here have written i won't waste my time or effort in trying to educate them on the shear stupity of their comments other then to say regardless of their views of us here in Canada , we in the Camaro plant will build and deliver to you the best damm Camaro yet and take pride in the work we do with each one . I treat each one i have worked on as if its my own vehicle. Go Camaro and GO GM.

[camaro5]

Just for the record...

Oshawa beat out Kansas City or Oklahoma, whichever it was, because the Oshawa workers contracted to take ONE LESS BREAK PER DAY.

GM equates this to around 25 more Camaro's a month.

So now we have MORE Americans out of work, and some Canadians that will do without a deserved break time on the line.

Beancounters win again.

Oshawa does have GREAT initial quality.

[Wm Holden]

I'm sooooooooooo glad I already own my muscle car....

[garfin]

Originally Posted by SSmoked

also coming in this thread with info on the NDP. they are a bunch of losers. yes losers who nag at everything and come up with dumbass exuses to get rid of them. mcginty is the toronto mayer and is a complete goof ball who only cares for him self and not the citezens of toronto( ill start anyother thread on his stupidity). basic these a$$holes need to do their research before they start running their mouths. and whatever they say about the natural economy is bs(again ill bring up another thread on their stupidity). another thing why are they compreing a civic to a camaro, these politicans DONT DRIVE HONDA'S!! so they shouldnt be comparing.

and dont be suprised if our dumbass toronto mayer does something stupid involving the camaro. and im serious about that

Dalton McGuinty is the premier of Ontario - not the "mayer" [sic] of Toronto... that dubious honour goes to David Miller - but interestingly enough, your comments about "mcginty" [sic] can actually be applied to Miller!

Originally Posted by Hylton

Canadians all think the same eh? Paint them all with the same brush why don't ya. As far as Oshawa getting the Camaro, it is the highest quality/productive plant that GM has. They deserve to get it, plain and simple. BTW - how do you like your Z4C?

... and as far as Oshawa "getting" the Camaro, there's a little more to this than what initially appears on the surface.
In 1987 Both the Canadian federal government and the Quebec provincial governments each loaned GM CDN$110 million (interest free, + tax breaks) for a total of $220 million, to be repaid in 2017. This was done primarily in order to keep the St. Therese plant outside of Montreal operational.
Given the fact that GM ceased production of the F-body in 2002 and tore down that plant a few years later (which really pissed off the CAW and the governments at the time), there was a "moral" obligation (of sorts) to build the car in Canada if and when it came out of "hiatus", since the Ste. Therese plant had a mandate to build a "Camaro" there until such time as the loan was repaid, or the plant was indeed demolished.
It's a complicated legal scenario and I'm sure there were a lot of under-the-table negotiations going on between GM, the Canadian and Quebec governments as well as the CAW for years.

Making a fascinating read (especially in retrospect) is a summary of the surrounding events that was written 4 or 5 years ago by Guy McCoy (who posts as guionM over at camaroz28.com) and Johnny Hunkins that appeared in Popular Hot Rodding...
http://www.ls1fbody.com/The%20Return...0in%202007.htm

I'd suggest that awarding Oshawa the 5th Gen Camaro was a measured PR move by GM to avoid possible litigation by the CAW and make amends to the taxpayers in Canada/Quebec who for all intents and purposes, fronted the $220 million loan back then in 1987. What they took away from the CAW in 2002, they are returning in 2008/2009.

Best regardSS,

Elie

[Brokinarrow]

.; sigh ;. Its a MUSCLE CAR not a friggin hybrid civic! If you can design a hybrid or electric engine that will put out the performance of the Camaro while staying at the same affordable price, lemme know mm k?

[Matster]

Originally Posted by super60

Ok everyone take a deep breath and relax. The Federal and Provincal NDP do not speak for the vast majority of us here in Canada. They are extreme left leaning and have little support among the Oshawa GM workers. I say this because i work on the Camaro flex line and have a very good feel for the political views of the different workers in my area. As for the anti-canadian rant that some of the posters here have written i won't waste my time or effort in trying to educate them on the shear stupity of their comments other then to say regardless of their views of us here in Canada , we in the Camaro plant will build and deliver to you the best damm Camaro yet and take pride in the work we do with each one . I treat each one i have worked on as if its my own vehicle. Go Camaro and GO GM.

Sorry Super60 but I just can't, can't read your post without commenting. While many of your co-workers may not endorse the NDP, the head of your union, the CAW both past and present have been and will continue to be best bum buddies. The whole union mentality finds its roots in socialism and like all ideas that start out with good intentions its not long before the original purpose gets lost in a sea of corruption and greed. I believe that unions in the beginning had real value in protecting the worker from dangers working conditions and ensuring a fair wage. However, give an inch take two hundred miles and we now have teachers making 100K/year (teacher year = 6 months), TTC bus drivers and apparently ticket takers making 100K/year, garbage persons making 80K/year. I could go on but I think I've made my point.
Have a good look at the back ground of people like Buz Hardgrove, Bob White, and other Union leaders (past and present) and you'll quickly find out that they are NDPer's/socialists.

Most politician's lack the stomach and character to address these issues head on and at the end of the day the tax payer is left to finance these forms of government welfare job creation. GM on the other hand has share holders to answer to. In my opinion your union leaders have lead you like sheep to the slaughter. Every contract negotiated has resulted in higher wages and more benefits and eventually they will negotiate you and your co-workers right out of a job. Socialists say everyone is entitled to what everyone else has regardless of job value, education, relevancy or how many hours you work. Fortunately we actually live in a captialist world where the market and price point make that decision.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by camaro5

Just for the record...

Oshawa beat out Kansas City or Oklahoma, whichever it was, because the Oshawa workers contracted to take ONE LESS BREAK PER DAY.

GM equates this to around 25 more Camaro's a month.

So now we have MORE Americans out of work, and some Canadians that will do without a deserved break time on the line.

Beancounters win again.

Oshawa does have GREAT initial quality.

This is why (and I really, really tried hard not to post my opinion on this but it just about made my blood pressure blow up the sphygmomanometer) unions suck the lifeblood out of GM (and Ford, and Chrysler), and suck the lifeblood out of American productivity.

Why on earth are breaks part of a contract? Breaks and luches and other HR related issues should be company policy. Applied evenly, completely, and consistently among every GMNA employee. In writing, in the employee handbook and orientation guide. Just like any normal business. Abuse it or don't follow it and you will be subject to corrective action. No matter if it's in Kansas, Ontario, or New York City. What's the big deal?????

We're non-union where I work (hospital in Cleveland), you get two 15 minute breaks (if you have time to take them which is usually never), and an hour for lunch (again, if you have an hour to take it, God bless you). It seems like a reasonable and fair policy to me, because it's just like the company I used to work for. And just like my friend who works for Cleveland's main newspaper.

Why do unions have to screw everything up by demanding things as trite as breaks and lunches into a contract negotiation? Stuff like that should be company policies that are non-negotiable.

I commend the CAW for demanding one less break per day than the UAW, but still find it annoying that it is even part of a contract.

[DGthe3]

Layton and the NDP don't know too much about the economy. I personally support many of their policies, but I strongly disagree with others. As for building hybrids, I wonder if he is aware that Oshawa will be building hybrids soon, at the truck plant.

Originally Posted by 80Zedder

And since we got the camaro. These is and handful of new product coming our way now too. All built on the flex line. I hope this economy fixes itself right quick!

you wouldn't happen to be able to tell us those new products, would you?