New ZL1 owner and why I chose ZL1 over GT500

[RedWingsZL1]

I'm not an expect, and I could be wrong. But it seems the only Mustang that beats it's equivalent(v6/v8/1LE/etc) Camaro is the GT500 and that's only only due to the 'ceiling' that is perceivable placed upon the Camaro due to it's big brother Corvette. I may be wrong, gunna go do some reading, but that's my take on my preference on why I ordered a ZL1 over a GT500.

I do however agree with the argument that even if GM did trump the GT500 w/ a Camaro badged car, the Corvette wouldn't have lost it's niche in the market.

[newmoon]

I love the ZL1 and have been one of it's biggest cheer leaders, but I have to say that now the newness of the introduction to this car is over I see the 13-500 being the superior car. It's faster straight line, top-end, 1/4 mile, roll race, stop light to stop light, and nearly equal in the curves to the ZL1 with minor brake mods. It doesn't heat soak near as bad. It has forged internals with a engine capable of handling massive amounts of power. With pulley change CAI and tuning, it can be dam near 700 rwhp. It also looks mean as hell, and commands attention. I can't deny it anymore, the 500 is simply the stronger better performing car. Dam I can't believe I just said that. LOL

[Jeff65SS]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I love the ZL1 and have been one of it's biggest cheer leaders, but I have to say that now the newness of the introduction to this car is over I see the 13-500 being the superior car. It's faster straight line, top-end, 1/4 mile, roll race, stop light to stop light, and nearly equal in the curves to the ZL1 with minor brake mods. It doesn't heat soak near as bad. It has forged internals with a engine capable of handling massive amounts of power. With pulley change CAI and tuning, it can be dam near 700 rwhp. It also looks mean as hell, and commands attention. I can't deny it anymore, the 500 is simply the stronger better performing car. Dam I can't believe I just said that. LOL

From what I remember reading on SVT Performance, the power capabilities of the 5.8l mustang motor are lower than that of the LSA, and the engine costs twice as much. Also, I don't remember heat soak being an issue at the lightning lap at VIR, where the ZL1 outran the GT500 by 3 seconds a lap, a deficit that I don't think could have been overcome by a minor brake upgrade. Either way, if you are going to turn, get the ZL1. If you are going straight line, get the GT500, for thousands more. For one third of the price savings you get from buying the ZL1 over the GT500, you can make the ZL1 the faster straight line car.

[DrkPhx]

I love the new GT500; but something that is hardly ever brought up is the price. I bought my ZL1 below msrp last year. Had I bought a similarly equipped GT500 it would have cost an easy $10K more which was more than I was willing to pay. Throw in the track pack and the difference goes up even more. At the time every dealer had a markup on top of that. I now see the markups are going away; but $65K plus is still a lot for any pony car regardless of prestige and performance.

OP - Welcome to the club and enjoy your new car!

[sonic656]

Originally Posted by ZL1-Camaro

I know who You are. The one always posting comments on YouTube Vids. I think that You know what we say about _____

No you don't.



OP, throw on a few bolt on's and enjoy the hell out of it

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by Jeff65SS

From what I remember reading on SVT Performance, the power capabilities of the 5.8l mustang motor are lower than that of the LSA, and the engine costs twice as much. Also, I don't remember heat soak being an issue at the lightning lap at VIR, where the ZL1 outran the GT500 by 3 seconds a lap, a deficit that I don't think could have been overcome by a minor brake upgrade. Either way, if you are going to turn, get the ZL1. If you are going straight line, get the GT500, for thousands more. For one third of the price savings you get from buying the ZL1 over the GT500, you can make the ZL1 the faster straight line car.

The 5.8 will handle more boost before you have to get into internal mods which is why you'll notice a lot of the high horsepower mods for the ZL1 include new engine internals. I simply wouldn't trust the LSA with more boost and no internal upgrades. Boost is the limiting factor in both cars unless the rods are upgraded (750 RWHP or so if I recall, I know the rods in the LSA and 5.8 break at around the same point). But after those are upgraded the 5.8 is much stronger than the LSA.

The LSA was the right choice for the ZL1 though, the LS9 would have made it a $80,000 car...

Also as per the heat soak. You won't notice it on the first lap but after the third or so one you will. Just google "ZL1 Heat Soak" Chevy put a horrible intercooler on the ZL1 but its something that can be fixed. Though I don't like the shortcut way....

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by The IOM Ninja

The 5.8 will handle more boost before you have to get into internal mods which is why you'll notice a lot of the 100, 200 horsepower mods for the ZL1 include new engine internals. With the 5.8 it's as simple as a new CAI, Throttle Body, Pulley and a tune ($1000 ish). Boost is the limiting factor in both cars unless the rods are upgraded (750 RWHP or so if I recall, I know the rods in the LSA and 5.8 break at around the same point). But after those are upgraded the 5.8 is much stronger than the LSA,

The LSA was the right choice for the ZL1 though, the LS9 would have made it a $80,000 car...

Also as per the heat soak. You won't notice it on the first lap but after the third or so one you will. Just google "ZL1 Heat Soak" Chevy put a horrible intercooler on the ZL1 but its something that can be fixed. Though I don't like the shortcut way....

But we are getting off topic. Has that moron the picked the wrong car posted any photos of the damn ugly thing yet

FOR THE STUPID PEOPLE:

THIS POST IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY SARCASM

[v8]

Originally Posted by The IOM Ninja

But we are getting off topic. Has that moron the picked the wrong car posted any photos of the damn ugly thing yet

FOR THE STUPID PEOPLE:

THIS POST IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY SARCASM

No pics yet, I will get it in a week or two. Its sitting at the dealership but I have to wait for a decent day to drive it home. Its interesting to see everyones opinions regarding the two vehicles, and they really are two different vehicles.

As I posted in my original post, I feel that the GT500 powertrain is superior, but I like the camaro for its looks, engine simplicity, and also its seating position is better. I'm a licensed mechanic although I left the trade back in the 90's I am mechanically inclined. I heavily researched each vehicle and I think one of the reasons Ford can give so much is they have recouped their tooling costs on the S195 platform a long time ago(as the platform is old) Now just because its old doesn't mean its bad by any stretch, just saying. The 5th gen platform hasn't been around for as long. Also I was had mixed feelings about the solid rear axel. A part of me really likes it for its durability and you get less parasitic loss than an IRS. Just check out the RWHP vids between the two stock, the Mustang has about 100 HP more.

I am not one of those people who say buy a Ford cause its a Ford, of buy a Chev cause its a Chev. I have taken an objective approach to each. Also for the people who think that the next gen Mustang will hurt the value of the 13/14 I don't know. The next Mustang will have IRS which may make the solid rear axel very desirable for the crowd that really likes to drag race at the strip.

For me there were so many considerations I would take all day to explain them, and while I wish the Camaro had some features the the Mustang has I understand that we can't have it all. Summed up, the Camaro worked for me

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Jeff65SS

From what I remember reading on SVT Performance, the power capabilities of the 5.8l mustang motor are lower than that of the LSA, and the engine costs twice as much. Also, I don't remember heat soak being an issue at the lightning lap at VIR, where the ZL1 outran the GT500 by 3 seconds a lap, a deficit that I don't think could have been overcome by a minor brake upgrade. Either way, if you are going to turn, get the ZL1. If you are going straight line, get the GT500, for thousands more. For one third of the price savings you get from buying the ZL1 over the GT500, you can make the ZL1 the faster straight line car.

Not sure where you read that the 5.8 is weaker than the LSA but that is just plain wrong. No arguement the ZL1 will be quicker most times through the twisties, but being honest how many of us have ever raced another vehicle in the turns or ever will. While it's nice to be able to say my car won the Lightning Lap challenge in the Car & Driver edition, to me it's better to say I just ran a 11:40 in the 1/4 mile at 127-mph bone stock, which I think a few 13s have done. It's frustrating being a huge fan of the ZL1 to keep seeing video after video on youtube of a ZL1 being destroyed by a 500 in the real world.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by v8

No pics yet, I will get it in a week or two. Its sitting at the dealership but I have to wait for a decent day to drive it home. Its interesting to see everyones opinions regarding the two vehicles, and they really are two different vehicles.

As I posted in my original post, I feel that the GT500 powertrain is superior, but I like the camaro for its looks, engine simplicity, and also its seating position is better. I'm a licensed mechanic although I left the trade back in the 90's I am mechanically inclined. I heavily researched each vehicle and I think one of the reasons Ford can give so much is they have recouped their tooling costs on the S195 platform a long time ago(as the platform is old) Now just because its old doesn't mean its bad by any stretch, just saying. The 5th gen platform hasn't been around for as long. Also I was had mixed feelings about the solid rear axel. A part of me really likes it for its durability and you get less parasitic loss than an IRS. Just check out the RWHP vids between the two stock, the Mustang has about 100 HP more.

I am not one of those people who say buy a Ford cause its a Ford, of buy a Chev cause its a Chev. I have taken an objective approach to each. Also for the people who think that the next gen Mustang will hurt the value of the 13/14 I don't know. The next Mustang will have IRS which may make the solid rear axel very desirable for the crowd that really likes to drag race at the strip.

For me there were so many considerations I would take all day to explain them, and while I wish the Camaro had some features the the Mustang has I understand that we can't have it all. Summed up, the Camaro worked for me

Good post, looks like you have thought this out. It's an individuals preferences that matter most, those that prefer raw power and 1/4 mile times will probably prefer the GT500, but those that prefer a better all around performer that is easy to drive on a daily basis yet you can take to the track anytime you want and have fun will probably prefer the ZL1.
Then you have those that trash talk the other brand no matter what. No one car is perfect for everyone. If that were true then we would have no choices or every carmaker would make exact copies of the same car.
In other words buy what fits you and who cares what others believe.

[JWR046]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Not sure where you read that the 5.8 is weaker than the LSA but that is just plain wrong. No arguement the ZL1 will be quicker most times through the twisties, but being honest how many of us have ever raced another vehicle in the turns or ever will. While it's nice to be able to say my car won the Lightning Lap challenge in the Car & Driver edition, to me it's better to say I just ran a 11:40 in the 1/4 mile at 127-mph bone stock, which I think a few 13s have done. It's frustrating being a huge fan of the ZL1 to keep seeing video after video on youtube of a ZL1 being destroyed by a 500 in the real world.

Back to the old discussion of what car we like better. The GT500 may be quicker in the 1/4 but that sure does not make it a better car. Pretty obvious in all the reviews. They both get rated pretty well but the ZL1 usually ends up on top. My position is that we have some pretty bad ass American muscle cars.

[hognutz]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I love the ZL1 and have been one of it's biggest cheer leaders, but I have to say that now the newness of the introduction to this car is over I see the 13-500 being the superior car. It's faster straight line, top-end, 1/4 mile, roll race, stop light to stop light, and nearly equal in the curves to the ZL1 with minor brake mods. It doesn't heat soak near as bad. It has forged internals with a engine capable of handling massive amounts of power. With pulley change CAI and tuning, it can be dam near 700 rwhp. It also looks mean as hell, and commands attention. I can't deny it anymore, the 500 is simply the stronger better performing car. Dam I can't believe I just said that. LOL

some of you points are vaild but some are off. The rods are powder forged just like the LSA.

There is no way the novice driver and a normal road will carry the same speed through a corver. the mag ride just soaks up the abnormalites in the road way better.

I would love for all the people on the interent that are novice drivers go lap each car. I bet 90% + would lap faser in a ZL1. it is perdictable at speed. there is a reason magazine drivers do better with the ZL1.

Many people on the interet that run there mouth all do long are not expert drivers. they will go faster in the car that is easier to drive.

if it were truely as simple as you say I would have bought the GT500. The VBOX data from randy probst laps at laguna seca really tell whole story. one is more powerfull one is more balanced.

[Camarotobeornottobe]

I just recently sold my supercharged Mustang, and I've just started lurking on the Camaro forums to learn what I need to learn before I decide on a Camaro (and what subsequent modifications, if any).

I know the discussion has been about performance. However, there are some real negatives (and possible negatives) with the GT500 I don't see discussed. Although, I'm not sure at this point in my research if Camaros are much better. For instance:

1. All Mustangs can be tough to work on. Ever try to put headers on the 5.0? I can't imagine the 5.8 is any easier. Although, tuning seems to be easier, as you can load and unload tunes from a handheld.

2. Ford's service, from a centralized factory perspective, sucks balls. While every dealer can vary, they usually need factory authorization for any repairs that matter. Ford seems to find reasons to NOT repair cars, and "normal operating characteristic" is something too many Mustang owners hear.

3. The Camaro looks much more aggressive. The GT500 is hot, no doubt, but its overall shape does not command the attention of even an SS Camaro.

4. Ford is moving very quickly to void warranties these days. With the 4.6s, you could tune it and put it back to stock for service without problem. Nowadays, forget it. You tune, and you're very likely on your own for about anything. Say what you want about Magnuson.

5. If this type of thing bothers you, the Ford motors these days seem to be . . . noisy. I'm speaking of the 4.6s and the 5.0s, so I am admittedly making an assumption with the 5.8s. At idle, half of them have this ticky, chirpy thing going on that is attributed to the variable overhead cams (supposedly). The Camaros and Challengers I've heard sound like butter, but maybe my sample size there is too small.

6. Not sure how the manual trannies are in the Camaros, but they suck in the Mustangs. The 5.0s have the infamous MT-182, and many GT500 owners have complained about the syncros in the TR6060, at least is prior years. Could the 2013 be much better?

There is something to be said about the rated 82 HP difference, as well as the lighter weight. There is no getting around that. Adding power to the Camaro comes with cost: Financial costs, warranty issues, and the usual headaches that come anything you change a car from its originally engineered state.

[Kevlar382]

Why are there so many people on this website that don't own ZL1s? Aren't there websites they can going on for the type of cars they own? It seems like they are always trying to convince them selfs that they bought the right car. I know the Fords and Mopars are really nice but I like Chevys and have never felt the need to go on their websites and convince them my car is better, or more importantly convince myself that I bought the right car. Just wondering.