Camaro Fest Drag Racing-Part 1: Discussion for improvements

[mlee]

Originally Posted by MudderFinger

You are right and that is why they had to add them in the ladder later, because the system does not add what isn't there in qualifying. That why LUCAS guy said he had no number in the ladder and we had to wait for them to make a new one. The first ladder had me as 1st qualifier making a by run, becuase they were not on it, and five minutes later they show up and ladder gets completely rewritten.

That was a tech issue not a qualifying issue. I've already said that tech didn't go well. The IPS car was late to tech but made the pass, probably why you didn't see it in the lanes. We also waited on the LMR car to arrive because the driver was also driving in the shop car class. Your helmet was on and ready to race by that time so probably why you saw neither in the lanes.

LMR purposely didn't make a rd1 run and I can't believe you didn't see the parts all over the track as IPS made their 27 second run.

I've said my piece here and discussed this in detail with you at the track. Now on to improving for next year.

[Supercharged SS]

Originally Posted by mlee

They absolutely qualified. The system won't put them in the ladder without it.

I told the guy to not ask the question if he didn't want to hear the answer. Tech will be cleaned up next year. It's much easier to deal with someone pissed they can't run without a DS loop than guys quoting safety issues. I promise this will be a focus next year and hope you all will back me when the complains start. But it will be a good thing. Also a completely different track.

Unlimited class and faster will change next year. Rules for these classes remained the same as last year and the cars met the rules so easy to defend whether right or wrong. This is 100% on me an I will own it. I have more to add but still making the trek home. Tks for the constructive discussion.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

When there are safety issues as blatant as the lmr car they need to be addressed and brought to the higher ups attention. Not only is it not safe but if they cut corners there whats not to say they didn't cut corners somewhere else thus endangering the car they were racing. I wouldnt line up next to that car if I was getting paid.

The tech issue belongs to the track, not camaro 5. You rely on them to make sure they are doing their job.

Letting shop cars in with personal cars is a camaro 5 topic. When you have drivers and 6 people bringing the car up to the lights is a bit over the top for the unlimited class. If you need that much help staging that you have a shop car.

Darth Emma's car had no tech issues. How could it. It's a work of art. That was prob the safest, most well built car present. It just broke done parts and the driver made a mistake. That's racing and that's why I would have no problem lining up against it.

Lets face it, the unlimited class was a huge cluster f#*k. Lack of communication was the main culprit. Now we all know what needs to be worked on for the upcoming fests.

[Supercharged SS]

Originally Posted by mlee

We did run a shop car class, which was created last year for just this reason. The two cars in question were personally owned and funded, have full interiors, are street registered and licensed.

The lmr was not legal to run on an nhra sanctioned track. End of story. Should have failed tech. Not sure how it got through. Ray Charles would have failed it.


Darth Emma's car..... We know what her car is about. Technically it isn't a shop car but its like an nba player playing against a 10 year old. If beating lesser opponents gives you your kicks, well then, you'll be playing alone very soon.

[GTAHVIT]

Ok guys, Full disclosure.

We've got nothing to hide.

Please hear me out. I promise I won't try and change anyone's mind. We've learned one thing after our 4th fest. We can't make everyone happy. So I won't embarrass myself trying.

But please allow us to reveal how some of our decisions were made.

We had a long tough conversation on Friday night... without giving you the blow by blow. We could only come up with one discriminator. who paid for and owns the car. I'm not saying it's right nor am I saying it's final. but at the last minute, we all agreed that was the best we could do... I do think however that we should have given more consideration to the "Pro Driver" mod....

We may need to include cars, not driven by the owners, go in the shop/sponsored class???

All I can offer up is we got blind sided by the IPS and LMR cars... they were clearly privateer cars but had a TON of shop support/crew... We should have considered this as well.

Tech.... I really don't think we can please every one on this.

But here are some simple truths... We don't run tech, the track does. And they know that they have to balance the fun with the safety. Firebird had NHRA inspectors there during our event and it made the drag racing no fun... Temperatures were also part of the problem but the very rigid tech made it difficult to have fun.

So, none of the Camaro5 Staff can really speak to what they did or didn't do... I'm sure it's hard for drag tech to look at a car like the ARH car and right behind it, tech a vert ZL1...

No excuses just trying to illustrate how we got to the situation we find ourselves in.

So, Please know that we did try to make a call, and we'll have to live with the back lash.

Feel free to blast away and tell us how awful we did. We will certainly consider it and run with it for next year.

Also,

For the faster classes we should have a formal drivers meeting where we can discuss, RESPECTFULLY discuss any last minute changes to the rules based on who shows up and why.

That way, we don't make our decision in a vacuum, and you all get some representation, and at the end of the day, we all have to live with the decision. Something for us to consider for next year.

In general, please know we have no bias for any car or member/vendor. The track and the mods did our best to make the vent appeal to as many people as possible and that usually means we will upset a few...

All I can say, is we're sorry that our decision wasn't completely thought through and in the heat of the moment and a few drinks into the evening we may have rushed to a decision.

We will certainly try and avoid that in the future.

As far as who qualified and who didn't. I personally watched the IPS car break the axle on Friday... but I didn't follow the days events as closely as some of you... FWIW.

Respectfully,

Chris

Originally Posted by Supercharged SS

Here's my camaro fest 4 experience:

Originally Posted by The Baron

I had a great time.. I kinda think putting Darth Erma and the LMR CARS, BOTH obviously shop built and maintained car in unlimited class was bullsxxt but other than that good all around experience. Ruined a good heads up zl1/blower ss class imop..

Originally Posted by lewylew

Overall had a great time.
To bad they ruined the unlimited class by putting 2 shop cars in it. Everyone one knows it was BS even the people at LUCAS. Any car with a billboard on the car obviously is a shop car. If it is your car you should drive it. The 2 of them should not have even been aloud to run being they did not qualify. They refused a guy in the modified class from running because he did not qualify. Then the way they lined them up with the 2 FASTEST UNLIMITED NON SHOP cars was also BS. Muddfinger and The Baron should have had a chance to win. That would have made for a great show. I totally lost interest when the IPS and LMR car were in this class.

OWNERS SHOULD DRIVE. I drove my car 9 hours and raced then drove home(no shop car here).

Something has to change.

Originally Posted by SRT5939

A Vendors biggest mistake is to Race and compete with it's customers.
What a bad decision.
Hopefully the members know how to handle that choice a couple vendors made.
Hard to believe a member would go to that length to win a race that is supposed to be fun for all members.
Why did the folks in charge of the event allow this to happen? Is someone getting there pockets stuffed?
Is Speedster still involved in running this event? I'm sure he would not stand for this kind of behavior.
Hopefully it won't hurt next years attendance to much.
Good luck getting it resolved, hope next year things are done on a more fair and even playing field.

Originally Posted by MudderFinger

Yep, I had it until they added those 2 shop cars that did not belong in the class (LMR and IPS)that did not even participate in Qualifying. It screwed not only me but everyone that did participate in Qualifying.


You are completely right to be upset about this.
The biggest points of how wrong this was and how bad it ruined the race are:
1. Those cars did not belong in an amateur, trophy only class. If you have a full paid race team, advertisement all over the car and can’t even drive your own car and have to hire a professional driver to complete in an amateur class. That itself is pitifully wrong. And I hope they feel a real accomplishment with the $10 trophy they practically paid for.

2. Those cars did not even participate in Qualifying, and if they they would have, they would have been the fastest qualifiers. That would of adjusted the ladder In a position that would of had me as third place qualifier running against the 7th place qualifier instead of running against an almost 8 second car that did not even participate in qualifying. This affected not only me but The Barron got beat up over this too.

3. If they had qualified and the ladder was put together properly The Barron and I would have had a chance to make to either semi-finals or finals. There is also the chance that those two could not avoid running against each other, and would open a spot for a legitimate (street)car to make it to finals.

4. Politics have no place in drag racing in my opinion.

Other than the completely screwed up drag race which was bull, I had a great time during the event, but now wish I did not even participate in the drag race at all. I have never seen anyone get away with this at any other racing event. If you did not properly qualify you should not be allowed in the class.

Originally Posted by yotaman96

I completely agree with this. When they announced the winner, they called it a shop car and the entire shop went up to accept the trophy. They should have been in the shop car class.

Originally Posted by Supercharged SS

Lets not forget that they called everyone to staging and the IPS car and the lmr car both stayed at the trailer for 30+ minutes cooling down while everyone was else was ready to go. The track announcer was going bullshit.

The lmr car shouldn't have been allowed on the track. Just a quick look showed countless tech problems:

1: It went 9.1 at 155. Had a 6 point cage and no chute.

2. Driver, not the owner, was racing in a t shirt.

3. No crotch belt.

4. Battery sitting on the floor of the passenger side. Just sitting there.

Originally Posted by Supercharged SS

Yup. Me too. That dude should have just came and went. Tech was obviously quite lax. In the northeast they'll pull you for going fast with rubber valve stems. You need metal ones after a certain speed. Jeff looked the other way when I asked him about it. So if the track director could care less so will the rest of the staff.

This stuff needs to be cleared up before the next fest. They need to decide if its an actual event or an exhibition. Rules need to be in place and followed. It left a sour taste in everyone's mouth.

Originally Posted by Supercharged SS

There was no discussion about it. They just did it. The other unlimited cars had no choice.

Originally Posted by The Baron

About the tech thing. At events like this a strict nhra tech cannot be followed,. A stock zl with a set of drs and a good tune would require a cage, and that kind of aggressive thinking will kill var count. That being said, a safety HAZZARD needs to be avoided.

these fun runs are based on a common sense approach to beingbsafe and still allowing for fun... my car was messed uup all weekend and onlybmade 1 decent pass, I still had a great time... next year a guy who is PART if the community should be present and in charge of the drag side, not just the autocross because texas is going yo bring some cars. .

Originally Posted by SRT5939

Tech should be followed period, saftey first. It's all fun and games till someone ends up Dead!
There's no excuse for a car going 150mph plus without the proper safety equipment. Only a person with complete disregaurd for his own life would drive a car that fast and not be up to par or above it.

No professional driver I know is that stupid.

Originally Posted by YLWJKT

Just a thought, but why not make a class for strictly shop cars next year?
Let the big boys showcase what they can do, without running against their customers/potential customers.
I guarantee more harm than good was done to the two shops in terms of customer relations.

Originally Posted by mlee

We did run a shop car class, which was created last year for just this reason. The two cars in question were personally owned and funded, have full interiors, are street registered and licensed.

Originally Posted by MudderFinger

You are right and that is why they had to add them in the ladder later, because the system does not add what isn't there in qualifying. That why LUCAS guy said he had no number in the ladder and we had to wait for them to make a new one. The first ladder had me as 1st qualifier making a by run, becuase they were not on it, and five minutes later they show up and ladder gets completely rewritten.

[Supercharged SS]

Shit happens. All that we can do is learn from it. I'm just glad to hear that you guys did see some possible issues and discussed it. Like you said, you'll never please everyone.

[Darth_Emma]

The rules of the class we were in (unlimited) said "privately owned," "street registered," and "any driver" in the qualifications for the class. My car is owned by me. The work on my car was totally paid for by me. I was intensively involved in all aspects of the build. The car is street registered.

I even asked the guys running the event which class we should run in and they said "unlimited." We were doing what we were told to do.

And FYI, we did qualify in the last qualifying round. Then, we had a red light in the first round of the finals due to a mechanical failure, so we were out of it at that point.

We did not play politics. We followed the rules. We didn't take anything away from anybody.

Congratulations to those who won their classes.

[Supercharged SS]

Originally Posted by Darth_Emma

The rules of the class we were in (unlimited) said "privately owned," "street registered," and "any driver" in the qualifications for the class. My car is owned by me. The work on my car was totally paid for by me. I was intensively involved in all aspects of the build. The car is street registered.

I even asked the guys running the event which class we should run in and they said "unlimited." We were doing what we were told to do.

And FYI, we did qualify in the last qualifying round. Then, we had a red light in the first round of the finals due to a mechanical failure, so we were out of it at that point.

We did not play politics. We followed the rules. We didn't take anything away from anybody.

Congratulations to those who won their classes.

You are 110% correct. You have the fastest, one of the best built cars in this community. Why wouldn't you want to race cars that are in the same league? I would think you'd get more satisfaction beating the Farks car than beating 750 rwhp cars.

[Deke736]

All I have to add that hasn't been said before was that I entered to have fun and I did that. While I don't agree that all of the cars in the Unlimited class should have been there, I accept that as the rules that were in place when we started. I'm not a pro, I don't have a ton of money in my car, and I wasn't even on my DRs since they were sitting at home in the garage.

Somehow, I ended up with a 2nd Place finish in the class and felt lucky to have won it. Whether the LMR car should have been there or not, the driver was a class act. I was just impressed to be around you guys that really know your stuff and have impressive cars. I learned a lot and had fun at the same time. At the end of the day that is all that mattered to me. I look forward to seeing you all again next year.

[VanquisherSS]

Originally Posted by Supercharged SS

I would think you'd get more satisfaction beating the Farks car than beating 750 rwhp cars.

Truth. I mean I wouldn't even bother lining up against her car, that's a waste of time. All in good fun only goes so far. Kind of glad I didn't go this year.

[tpower]

Bracket Racing would fix all of this

[Supercharged SS]

Originally Posted by tpower

Bracket Racing would fix all of this

The heads up racing is a bunch of fun. I wouldn't want that to go away. But it would be like me racing 12 second car. That's no fun for me. I would think others would think along those lines.

[tpower]

Originally Posted by Supercharged SS

The heads up racing is a bunch of fun. I wouldn't want that to go away. But it would be like me racing 12 second car. That's no fun for me. I would think others would think along those lines.

I agree just need some tighter class and nhra rules

[Supercharged SS]

Originally Posted by tpower

I agree just need some tighter class and nhra rules

Yup. You hit the nail on the head. I think going forward there will be less and less problems.

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by Deke736

All I have to add that hasn't been said before was that I entered to have fun and I did that. While I don't agree that all of the cars in the Unlimited class should have been there, I accept that as the rules that were in place when we started. I'm not a pro, I don't have a ton of money in my car, and I wasn't even on my DRs since they were sitting at home in the garage.

Somehow, I ended up with a 2nd Place finish in the class and felt lucky to have won it. Whether the LMR car should have been there or not, the driver was a class act. I was just impressed to be around you guys that really know your stuff and have impressive cars. I learned a lot and had fun at the same time. At the end of the day that is all that mattered to me. I look forward to seeing you all again next year.

Thanks very much. So very glad you had a good time.

Originally Posted by Supercharged SS

Yup. You hit the nail on the head. I think going forward there will be less and less problems.

Ultimately that is what we are trying to accomplish. We'll keep trying to get better and better. As long as you guys keep coming, we'll keep working on it.