315 size rear tire...

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

Originally Posted by Jordan

I didn't mean to hi jack this thread!

We were running our Inverted Adjustable Coil Overs along with our Sport Sway Bar Package and we picked up 5.5 seconds a lap over the OEM package on a 2.2 mile course with stock wheels and tires. The handling was confidence inspiring with the package.

I will post more data as well shortly. Please feel free to call or email us anytime!



Miller Motorsports Park on track with Inverted Coil Overs and Sport Sways.





Skid Pad Testing at Miller Motorsports Park Sport Sways only.





Just for fun!







I will post more of the results HERE. Please feel free to call or email us anytime! You can also find more of our Testing photo's HERE.

Kind regards,

Hey Jordan,

Thanks for chiming in. To start, we both need to agree there is a serious amount of unnecessary body role, and understeer. Also we both need to agree that adding larger tires to the rear, will increase understeer. If we can agree on this, and I would be shocked if you do not, based on what I know of your company, we can proceed.

We have done testing at Gingerman with stock OE 20s, and know what do do with stockers and oversized tires, with all said and done, we can get a Camaro with 275s all the way around to outperform a Camaro on a track with 315s rear and 275 fronts. We have done the testing. Now when guys are looking at us to provide max suspension efficiency, eliminating the split configuration helps the understeer problem. I do know the Vettes, your specialty, have no wheres near the understeer problems and body role as the Camaro. With proper setup, we can make massive improvements. But for max performance, for those guys buying wheels and tires, our recommendation stands. Again, we have actually done the comparisions and have had a professional driver, not us make the evaluation.

thanks
mike
dms

[Tony SS]

So, if the rear tire is moving up to the 305/315 size then 275 fronts would be a better choice I assume?

[PfadtRacing]

Originally Posted by Tony SS

so the question is......Would it not be a good idea to run 245's in the front and 295, 305, or 315's in the rear?


Tony SS

Originally Posted by Tony SS

Please provide your thoughts......

Hi Tony,

I would recommend keeping the stagger as close to the factory set up as possible. If you were to leave the 245's up front and went to a 315 in the rear you wouldn't have enough grip up front. I would suggest a 275 up front and a 315 in the rear with our package. This will give you maximum overall grip. It is important to have the suspension tuned to work correctly and we've been able to achieve balance while retaining the stagger. We're always happy to answer questions. Please feel free to call or email us anytime!

Kind regards,

[Tony SS]

Thanks Jordan for the information.

Tony SS

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

Originally Posted by Tony SS

So, if the rear tire is moving up to the 305/315 size then 275 fronts would be a better choice I assume?

The closer you can get the front and rear tire sizes the better you will be. Doing a 245 front and a 315 rear, I would not recommend it.

You also need to be aware the programming can only tolerate a certain variation in tire size front to rear. 245 fronts and 315 rears might exceed the tolerance issues in the programming.

Plus adding 315/20s and drag racing will add a huge amount of additional grip in the back and that is a good thing. But rear axles are already breaking, even with stock SS 20s, with nothing but a program enhancement.

I truly think the 315 looks really cool on the Camaro, and with a carefully configured wheel, it will fit. Your camber options are limited but it will fit correctly. I also make references a lot to the understeer issues of the Camaro because it is quite significant. But many guys may not take the Camaro to the max and may be just fine with it.

Also there is a significant difference on sectional width on tires, even when they are the same size. Currently, it appears the Pirellis and Michelins are wider than Nittos. This also plays a factor as well
mike
dms

[PfadtRacing]

Originally Posted by dms

Hey Jordan,

Thanks for chiming in. To start, we both need to agree there is a serious amount of unnecessary body role, and understeer. Also we both need to agree that adding larger tires to the rear, will increase understeer. If we can agree on this, and I would be shocked if you do not, based on what I know of your company, we can proceed.

We have done testing at Gingerman with stock OE 20s, and know what do do with stockers and oversized tires, with all said and done, we can get a Camaro with 275s all the way around to outperform a Camaro on a track with 315s rear and 275 fronts. We have done the testing. Now when guys are looking at us to provide max suspension efficiency, eliminating the split configuration helps the understeer problem. I do know the Vettes, your specialty, have no wheres near the understeer problems and body role as the Camaro. With proper setup, we can make massive improvements. But for max performance, for those guys buying wheels and tires, our recommendation stands. Again, we have actually done the comparisions and have had a professional driver, not us make the evaluation.

thanks
mike
dms

Hi Mike,

I agree there is too much deflection in the bushings, too much body roll and the car is very unbalanced from the factory. With the factory package larger rear tires will increase understeer. Where we have a difference of opinion is that you have to run a square set up to remove the understeer. We've done this by engineering a sway bar package specificly for the Camaro and it doesn't require a square set up. Sway bars are the ultimate tuning tool as far as balance goes. For our customers that want to retain the factory package but want to make the car more responsive in cornering we've developed a "Balance" rear sway bar; the customer simply bolts it on and the understeer is gone. We have Chevrolet Dealers putting these on Camaro's on the show room floor. This is much cheaper than having to buy new wheels and tires. The next option is our Sport Sway Bars. They offer increased roll stiffness and maintain the balance found in our Balance Bar Package. The benefit of this package is a much more responsive corner entry as well as adjustability and reduced body roll. We know everyone has different driving styles and adjustability is the key.

I've run Gingerman and it's a fun track; small but fun! With a balanced package designed to work with 275's and 305/315's the car is faster than a car with 275's all the way around with our package. The car will have more overall grip including better corner exit because of the larger rear contact patch. If you're going for ultimate efficiency you want to get the biggest tires possible on the car and design the suspension to work with them; that's what we've done. Our Specialty is suspension tuning; the Vette's are neutral to oversteer depending on the model and we've balanced them as well through engineering and adjustability although it isn't nearly as sever as the Camaro.

We obviously have fundamental suspension tuning differences and that's fine. The ultimate winner will be the Camaro owners as they will have options and choices.

Kind regards,

[Tony SS]

Thanks guys for the information. I appreciate the feedback on the larger tires. I'm guilty of being old school and loving the looks of big tires tucked under the rear.......

Jordan, what kind of price is on the sway bars you mentioned?

[Tony SS]

Mike,

I appreciate the heads up on the programming aspect about 245 fronts and purchasing the larger back tires. I will definitely check out the offset issue on the rims I have chosen to make sure that 315's will fit correctly. If not, I might need to back down to 295/305's in order to fit correctly.

Thoughts anyone?????

[PfadtRacing]

Originally Posted by Tony SS

Thanks guys for the information. I appreciate the feedback on the larger tires. I'm guilty of being old school and loving the looks of big tires tucked under the rear.......

Jordan, what kind of price is on the sway bars you mentioned?

I will PM you pricing.

Originally Posted by Tony SS

Mike,

I appreciate the heads up on the programming aspect about 245 fronts and purchasing the larger back tires. I will definitely check out the offset issue on the rims I have chosen to make sure that 315's will fit correctly. If not, I might need to back down to 295/305's in order to fit correctly.

Thoughts anyone?????

I know with the correct off-set you can run 315's in the rear. I think the best overall package would be 275's in the front and 305's in the rear. This will allow you to keep the tires in the fender wells as well as keeping them from hitting the inner fender without mini-tubing it. If you were to do a mini tub you could go 295 up front and from 315 to 335 (335 I'd run our rear sway bar full stiff) in the rear. The largest tires we've tested with thus far are 275 front and 305 rear; they fit well. All of our suspension comparison #'s will be using the stock tires; the reason is we want you to know what our suspension does not what a good set of tires will do.

Please feel free to call us if you have any further questions.

Kind regards,

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Jordan

I will PM you pricing.



I know with the correct off-set you can run 315's in the rear. I think the best overall package would be 275's in the front and 305's in the rear. This will allow you to keep the tires in the fender wells as well as keeping them from hitting the inner fender without mini-tubing it. If you were to do a mini tub you could go 295 up front and from 315 to 335 (335 I'd run our rear sway bar full stiff) in the rear. The largest tires we've tested with thus far are 275 front and 305 rear; they fit well. All of our suspension comparison #'s will be using the stock tires; the reason is we want you to know what our suspension does not what a good set of tires will do.

Please feel free to call us if you have any further questions.

Kind regards,

Jordan - Will your kits only allow fitment of 315s/335s with mini tubs then?

Thanks,
Chuck

[PfadtRacing]

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

Jordan,

You are correct, this thread, and Mikes post don't go into detail as to the work they did on the Hennessey car. My guess is you, myself and Mike will all agree on most points made here. No one is saying you should change the wheel and tire set up to get the suspension to work properly.

I was simply trying to explain to you that there is some history on the tuning that pedders did, which you don't seem to be aware of. In the end they were able to tune the Hennessey car to get over 1G on the skid pad with the staggered wheel and tire set up.

So, in the end I believe we are all saying the same thing. I just wanted you to know that Pedders had accomplished similar suspension results as you did where staggered wheels and tires are concerned.

Not putting one vendor ahead of another. I just wanted you to have the entire story.

Respectfully,

Chris

Hi Chris,

It's not a problem!

I haven't seen the Hennessey test data except for the Edmonds report....

We're happy to be a part of this great forum and we look forward to helping everyone meet there performance goals!

Kind regards,

[radz28]

Yeah - that test was rubbish. It seems like Hennessey got the bugs squared away.

It's good to see another vendor join our group though. It never hurts to have options

[PfadtRacing]

Originally Posted by radz282003

Jordan - Will your kits only allow fitment of 315s/335s with mini tubs then?

Thanks,
Chuck

Hi Chuck,

We haven't tested any 335 set ups but it will require a mini tub for sure. The 315's will fit with the correct off set and I know ADM is working on some wheel packages. We've tested 275's up front and 305's in the rear and the car worked great! If you decide to run 315's I'd recommend a 285/295 front.

What is your performance goal and what will you be using the car for? Those are the most important questions.

Kind regards,

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Jordan

Hi Chuck,

We haven't tested any 335 set ups but it will require a mini tub for sure. The 315's will fit with the correct off set and I know ADM is working on some wheel packages. We've tested 275's up front and 305's in the rear and the car worked great! If you decide to run 315's I'd recommend a 285/295 front.

What is your performance goal and what will you be using the car for? Those is the most important questions.

Kind regards,

Okay; that sounds about right. Too bad :( Is there any way around that that you know of? I'd rather beat the outer/inner wheelhouse like my '02 than have to cut it open, but if that's what it takes, then it looks like my choices will be limited.

It sounds like the 285/315 combination won't be much of a headache. Honestly - I'm more of a straightline guy but would entertain throwing the car around an autoX. My tire/wheel selection is more for looks and profile than performance if I'm being honest. I just like the look of fat tires because it, to me, helps the rear of some cars look like they have "hips" in the back; it just looks more muscular to my eyes. I'd definately want the car to handle though, especially if I'm spending like $3-$4K in suspension and who knows how much more on tires/wheels.

Thanks for the input and I'm definately looking forward to any information you can share with us.