What you consider "most American"

[CamaroCracka]

Originally Posted by Nor Cal ZL1

I guess the Chinese work force should consider the many American companies that manufacture there Chinese?

Given the history of communism and intellectual property theft in China, that may be closer to the truth than you realize.

I don't shop at Walmart because I can buy what they sell on Amazon without the line, but there is no denying Sam Wall had a truly American story.

I work for a huge mult-national myself and people frequently don't realize the success of the employees and the success of these companies are intertwined. Not all of us want to run our own fruit stand.

[Nor Cal ZL1]

Originally Posted by Dmpsix

You have a good point but to answer the last part of your post, yes I would imagine they do. Who cares where the product goes to, as long as it benefits your own economy that it's being made in, then you can consider it whatever you want it to.

At first I was on the fence about a Japanese Company taking over here in San Antonio, but after seeing first hand what it has done to our economy and how San Antonio has always been recession proof, it can never be truly American even if 100% of the costs benefited us because of where it originated from.

HOWEVER... that being said, since the parts are made here, end products (vehicles) are sold here and most importantly jobs are provided here... It really is the American way.

As I said that is what they want you to think.

I disagree it is a Japanese company, manufacturing here for the sole benefit of the parent company in Japan. You can bet if it gets tough, they will be out of here in a blink of an eye.

They closed lots of plants here in Ca. I serviced the Chiller systems for the Stockton plant. It was a bad ass plant full of robotics, making the sheet metal for the cars. Everyone was happy, then a few months later I was surveying the building for a new tenant when Toyota pulled out. In all it is estimated that 20,000 jobs were lost statewide.

See link below.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/03/2...eaves-big.html

[Dmpsix]

Originally Posted by Nor Cal ZL1

As I said that is what they want you to think.

I disagree it is a Japanese company, manufacturing here for the sole benefit of the parent company in Japan. You can bet if it gets tough, they will be out of here in a blink of an eye.

They closed lots of plants here in Ca. I serviced the Chiller systems for the Stockton plant. It was a bad ass plant full of robotics, making the sheet metal for the cars. Everyone was happy, then a few months later I was surveying the building for a new tenant when Toyota pulled out. In all it is estimated that 20,000 jobs were lost statewide.

See link below.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/03/2...eaves-big.html

Yeah you make some more good points, that I can't argue with. I do remember reading about Toyota jumping ship when things got tough in Cali and I don't doubt for one second that they wont do the same in SATX.

Maybe it's the fact our economys are just worlds apart. That can't be disputed, but I can definitely agree that fact that Toyota maybe, just maybe isn't as American as I think.

But we definitely do appreciate their business here... just like all our exported jobs in China sweatshops appreciate American business.

[JCunningham]

if the 1st digits a 1 and the company is based in the USA. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with Canada though. Well except there gun laws.

[Ernest T]

Originally Posted by Nor Cal ZL1

Corporate in Japan wants you to believe that. They are only here for monetary advantage reasons. A side effect is people believe they are American because of employment. They have an advantage there due to low legacy costs. That helped force the domestics to outsource to reduce costs.

I guess the Chinese work force should consider the many American companies that manufacture there Chinese?

I don't really know the point of your commentary here. Toyota is a Japanese company, the trucks they produce in the San Antonio plant are Japanese trucks. Surely no one doubts that.

Toyota does provide jobs and paychecks for many Americans, not just in the manufacturing plants in the US, but also at their Corporate headquarters, distribution centers, and dealerships across the US. Companies like Toyota and Honda are multinational public corporations. They are headquartered in Japan, but have stockholders across the globe.

[PalmerGA]

Originally Posted by ChrisBlair

Not a bad choice. I'd say Packard though. "Ask the man who owns one". My buddy had a late '30s example once. This was the very late 1990s. That car rode like a dream.

Plus Packard license-built Merlin engines in WWII, and those powered the majority of P-51 Mustangs.

Oh... I didn't know we could include automakers who no longer exist. Packard is a good one but I'd say Studebaker (who briefly merged into the Studebaker-Packard Company but split after 2 years and Packard went under).

Three brothers who started a blacksmith shop in 1852. At that time they built mostly wagons and wheel barrows for farmers and the military. The famous Canastota Wagons that moved most of the country to the west were made by Studebaker. The wagons that the Budweiser Clydesdales pull are Studebakers. Nearly all of the union army Caissons in the Civil War were Studebakers. Their first electric car was built in 1902. First gasoline car built in 1904. They built heavy trucks for the US and Russian (they were our allies) armies during WWI and WWII. I drove a 1963 Studebaker 2-1/2 ton truck when I was in Germany (1982-1984) - it was the best running truck in the company. My first car was a Studebaker and my Dad bought them as long as he could, until they went out of business in 1966.

The list of accomplishments and contributions to this country goes on and on. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studebaker#History

[Todd in Vancouver]

Originally Posted by Evergreen6

I side mostly with the American University analysis of what makes a vehicle "American" or rather, "from the United States" since the Americas do encompass many countries which are not the US. The criteria makes sense to me.

And yeah, Walmart. I won't shop there. So many of their products are imported junk, or products developed specifically for Walmart stores to cut costs and maximize profit, and reduce value for the consumer. They are awful to their suppliers. They are awful to their employees and encourage a system of dependence on taxpayer assistance, meanwhile taking money out of their own consumer base. Hint: People don't have money to cycle back through the economy when large corporations employ armies of minimum wage, part-time workers. I'm an absolute believer that there are judgements of morality in business and there are clear deliniations between right and wrong. Hell is going to be a giant Walton family reunion. /Walmart.

^^^ BINGO!
I have arguements, in a fun way, with family members over this. It usually goes them telling me they can buy item X at walmart for $10. Then I am trying to explain that if they bought item X made locally at $15 and it last 3X as long then they paid more for their cheap Walmart crap. But they can't see past the extra $5

Originally Posted by kmarshall2121

Yea - because Target, Costco, etc... (any major retailer) would never hear of buying from other countries... NOT... Give Walmart a break, I buy their stock and they make me alot of money!

I'm truely happy for you (and I'm not trolling you) that you have been able to profit from your relationship with Walmart but that does not reflect the 1,000's who live as the working poor because of them.

Originally Posted by kmarshall2121

The 'rarity' you refer to is due to the fact my wife retired as a corporate HR manager.We truly support Walmart, as they have always treated us right. whether it be through stock options, personal levels, healthcare, whatever... with WMT closing at $86+ today, lets just say I will be able to retire a very comfortable guy...

Again, as a stock holder I may gain personally by 10 year old children in another country making shoes for $1/day but that doesn't mean it is morally right. Walmart is a plague on our land and they benifit greatly from the syatem and our tax dollars. There are books, videos and many a paper written on how Walmart is structured to pay little and force their employees to use assistance which they then cash in on when they are spent in their stores. We, the taxpayers, pay for those assistance for their employees. Meanwhile, Walmart is making more money then some countries and it is obscene. I'm not going to even go into how they manipulate government to avoid paying the appropriate of tax and their fair share.

Originally Posted by Nor Cal ZL1

As I said that is what they want you to think.

I disagree it is a Japanese company, manufacturing here for the sole benefit of the parent company in Japan. You can bet if it gets tough, they will be out of here in a blink of an eye.

They closed lots of plants here in Ca. I serviced the Chiller systems for the Stockton plant. It was a bad ass plant full of robotics, making the sheet metal for the cars. Everyone was happy, then a few months later I was surveying the building for a new tenant when Toyota pulled out. In all it is estimated that 20,000 jobs were lost statewide.

See link below.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/03/2...eaves-big.html

What I can tell you is in my time working for Japanese companies they have a very different view on business. It is about profit over everything and the building vehicles here is nothing more than a way to get around tarrifs and shipping costs. While we can appreciate the manufacturing money and jobs locally the overall gross profit dollrs and majority of design and higher end jobs all go back to Japan and or China. Personally, I'd rather buy a GM, Ford, Dodge and have the money stay on my own continent and see that cash be spent here.

[NC_SS]

As someone who works for Daimler, I will always prefer buying something made here in the good ole U S of A

I mean my paycheck comes from Germans, but American buyers keep our plant rolling. So I look for made in USA as much as I can, regardless of who owns the company, as long as they're employing Americans.

I build Freightliners and Western Stars btw, couldn't be more proud to build for customers who specify they want their Freightliners built in the USA, and all of our Western Stars are built in the USA.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by PalmerGA

And just how would boycotting the country's (and the world's) largest retail employer "help [the] local economy"?

By not supporting these big companies selling inferior products, it opens the door for more local small businesses to come in to the LOCAL area.

[CamaroCracka]

The problem with that theory is a lot of the local small businesses are selling the same Chinese crap as Wal-Mart.

I used to hike the Grand Canyon with some sales VPs years back and they used to talk about how they felt that anybody could open a company anywhere in the US and if they just delivered what they promised, when they promised it, for the price they promised it, they would be successful. The older I get, the more I am convinced of that. Most of the time I try to farm work out, the guy either sux and is lazy or wants way more than he is worth. I mean really, $1000 a day to do some construction. $100 to change a CV boot when the axle is off the car. No wonder the Mexicans are kicking their azzes (no offense Mexicans).

[PalmerGA]

Originally Posted by Todd in Vancouver

Again, as a stock holder I may gain personally by 10 year old children in another country making shoes for $1/day but that doesn't mean it is morally right.

Oh will you please stop! EVERY retailer in this country buys/sells Chinese (and Indonesian, Vietnamese, Korean, Mexican, etc.) crap because it improves their bottom line. If workers in this country would "settle" for $12/hour instead of $20 we'd have more employment, less welfare, and better products on the shelf - but they won't (or can't because of bargaining agreements).

You want only walking/jogging/tennis shoes made in the USA? Your choices include... New Balance. That's it and only some of NB products are made here - but not all NB products. WalMart sells Starter brand sneakers (made in China). I wear 'em and love 'em and the cost less than half of what the NB equivalent costs (I checked). I also have a pair of Dr. Scholl's walking shoes that fit and wear great - Made in China.

It's very simple. You can't get Made In America for a reasonable price anymore. We did it to ourselves. Don't blame WalMart for providing its customers with what they want and can afford. It's why they are the number ONE retailer in the world.

** I realize you live in Canada, Todd, but the whole WalMart thing is a preferred "target" (no pun intended) here in the states.

[PalmerGA]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

By not supporting these big companies selling inferior products, it opens the door for more local small businesses to come in to the LOCAL area.

Nice thought but... no. Our society is so screwed up and so far past supporting specialty "mom & pop" stores, getting rid of WalMarts would only add to the unemployment roles and price items above what the lower income folks could afford.

[Evergreen6]

Originally Posted by PalmerGA

Oh will you please stop! EVERY retailer in this country buys/sells Chinese (and Indonesian, Vietnamese, Korean, Mexican, etc.) crap because it improves their bottom line. If workers in this country would "settle" for $12/hour instead of $20 we'd have more employment, less welfare, and better products on the shelf - but they won't (or can't because of bargaining agreements).

You want only walking/jogging/tennis shoes made in the USA? Your choices include... New Balance. That's it and only some of NB products are made here - but not all NB products. WalMart sells Starter brand sneakers (made in China). I wear 'em and love 'em and the cost less than half of what the NB equivalent costs (I checked). I also have a pair of Dr. Scholl's walking shoes that fit and wear great - Made in China.

It's very simple. You can't get Made In America for a reasonable price anymore. We did it to ourselves. Don't blame WalMart for providing its customers with what they want and can afford. It's why they are the number ONE retailer in the world.

** I realize you live in Canada, Todd, but the whole WalMart thing is a preferred "target" (no pun intended) here in the states.

Wait, workers won't settle for making shoes for $12/hr, but they'll "settle" for cleaning bathrooms at Walmart for minimum wage?

Nope...sorry....not a believer.

Even if you insist on buying Chinese shoes, it doesn't have to be from a mega-retailer like Walmart. Personally, I'd rather buy from some small retailer where the profits are staying in the same town/county/state and benefit that family directly rather than lining the Walton's filthy rich pockets.

The American Way truly is "every man for himself" and it's pretty sad because somehow corporations only believe in the interest of shareholders and most believe they are somehow morally exempt in the absence of law or simply in the name of making profit. I guess that's all fine, until most people simply have absolutely nothing left and won't put up with it anymore.

[rontammy0]

I think one viable option to help with the cheap Chinese products and labour force is to make them respect the patent and copyright laws in place. Chinese work place safety and regulation is so far behind modern times that manufacturers can get away with child workers as well as very low pay structures for the workers.