Jay leno hints to the z28 in video!!!

[Xanthos]

Originally Posted by Number 3

So what you want is a 1SS (435HP) with light weight materials?

But you want it to cost the same as a 1SS?

Also a TT V6 is not as light weight as you might be thinking. Two turbos and an intercooler aren't light weght.

Plus to run the HP of the TT you would need the heavier transmission and radiator from the SS. Offsetting some more of the mass reduction of the TT.

I'd price a Z28 of this design in the 35-37 thousand range, with no options...

But I'd totally buy it. If I weren't poor.
- X

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by jcamaro

Well, since it would not need any option parts, let's say the Z28 used the LS as a starting point. MSRP of 22,000. Add the price for TT set up and it would go up to about 26,000. Add in lightweight parts (substracting cost of heavier parts not used) put it at 27,000. With upgraded suspension, roughly 29,000. Its feasible. The Z28 is a no frills car with great performance on the track but not the torque you get from a V8. If you want power, torque, and options, then you go with 1SS or 2SS.

Let the Z28 be the race car it was meant to be with a modern update (twin turbo DI V6) and let the ZL1 be the monster everyone wants to see. The LT/SS are the street cars with amenities people want in daily drivers.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! way under what it would cost.
I'd say $40,000. (Pedders (stick with this brand here, just like branded brakes), TT + all forged (so those who want can push it further), Z specific int/ext, forged wheels, etc.)

And it better have the better stereo & RS offered!

[Blackend SS]

thats is an evil laugh at 4:36 Ed.....your a sick man for teasing us like that! :P

[Wolverine]

Originally Posted by Rurouni_RoninSS

Exactly! If you guys think/want GM to release the z/28 with about 120 horses less the the CURRENT(note i said current; who knows what ford has in store for the gt500 in 2011) gt500, and your crazy! We need BIGGER numbers then the mustangs are putting out if we wanna compete with their light weight.

I have nothing against the TT idea though. In fact I love the TT vs supercharger idea. Throw those turbos on a V8 though!!!

[All-Or-Nothing]

Originally Posted by Ronin_2SS

you do realize that the Z28 line has always had the "lesser" hp than the SS models. They were always lighter and nimble with the smaller engine. Although if GM does go with a TT v6 this will be the 1st z28 not paking a v8. Traditionaly a factory 500hp Z28 doesnt make sense, call it the ZL1 and it would.

EXACTLY.

[Epitaph]

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

I agree that less weight is better. But, for a high output Z28, we are going to need more than 425hp. That won't cut it.

I was just giving an example though I would like to see it near 500HP & 500 lbs less

Originally Posted by 570hp-lpe

yeah... and a V-8 will put out over 650 HP pretty easily... more if you wanted it to.

Gotta go with the V-8.

Best would be both options TTV-6 and S/C V-8 with a handling option.

You can get a 4-banger to 1000HP.... Just because it's a V-6, doesn't mean that you're going to end up with 400HP, they could end up at 600HP if they wanted. The possibilities are endless.

One of the biggest reasons I like the TTV-6 is that you can get the same (or better) gas mileage. Combine that with less weight & you're definitely going to get better gas mileage (until the twins kick in).

Who doesn't like twins?

[missionbrent]

Originally Posted by Epitaph

Need more cubes for what? The extra weight in the engine? A TT v-6 can easily put out over 400hp with less weight & the same gas mileage! I'm all for that. Not that it's going to happen.

LS engines are very light engines. Any extra weight would be more than canceled out by the extra HP and less stress that is put on the engine. Also I am willing to bet that you weigh the LS3 and the 3.6 with twin turbos on it and they weigh pretty much the same. The TT might even weigh more when you factor in the weight of the pluming, intercooler, and turbos.

A Factory TT V6 isn't going to be the car that takes down a GT500. A V6 would have to much stress on it to keep up with a S/C V8. Remember the Z28 is supposed to compete with a GT 500. GM would have to go with an engine platform that can be RELIABLE for the terms of all of it's existing warranties and most likely UNDERCUT or EQUAL pricing with the GT500. Of course you can make a V6 with 600hp or more HP, but it is hard to make one that will last and you can warranty for a competative price. Look at any of the other cars out there with GT500 like HP and 6 bangers in them and check out the prices (I beleive the cheapest is the GTR which comes in at 70k). Also why would spend all that money develope an new engine when you can just throw an existing engine in it and spend very little on developement. GM did almost fold remember. I would bet on some version of the LSA, but there is no reason they can't keep that nice body from Jay Lenos car. IMO The Z28 would have to be a V8, especially when they have so many to choose from.

[missionbrent]

Originally Posted by Ronin_2SS

you do realize that the Z28 line has always had the "lesser" hp than the SS models. They were always lighter and nimble with the smaller engine. Although if GM does go with a TT v6 this will be the 1st z28 not paking a v8. Traditionaly a factory 500hp Z28 doesnt make sense, call it the ZL1 and it would.

I think I remember some earlier media about GM not following the historical placements of the model. Them saying that just because the SS was always higher doesn't mean the Z28 won't be the top model now. Something where they said the Z28 could be the top dog. I also thought some people inside GM already said the Z28 is meant to compete with the GT500. It is really the only direction that they can go. The V6 Camaro is faster than the 6 Mustang, the SS is faster than the GT, so the only one left to beat is the GT500. There is no reason for GM to make a Camaro that will compete with the SS. Even if they were to make it a road track car (like the Z28 was more of historicaly), it would be much cheaper to just use the SS (with a "track pack"), and a TT V6 isn't as light as you would think compared to the LS engine.

[rayhawk]

Considering the current V6 model only weighs about 100lbs less than the SS, there is no weight advantage to the TT V6, especially, as was said, when you add in the bigger trans, intercoolers, etc to handle the power. Maybe that would be true in the day of cast iron big blocks but the LS motors are extremely compact and lightweight engines. I still think a LSA is LESS expensive than a TT LLT V6 motor anyway. When you consider the higher power level and much higher potential, I think the LSA or a variant is the only realistic option for the Z28.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

....not a production engine.....

Specialty Equipment Market Association...aka...aftermarket....



Some of you think too much.

I beg to differ ...

Originally Posted by Number 3

So what you want is a 1SS (435HP) with light weight materials?

But you want it to cost the same as a 1SS?

Also a TT V6 is not as light weight as you might be thinking. Two turbos and an intercooler aren't light weght.

Plus to run the HP of the TT you would need the heavier transmission and radiator from the SS. Offsetting some more of the mass reduction of the TT.

Plus a 425+ turbo V6 from the factory is a rather different engine than a ~375 hp turbo V6. For the higher power levels it would have to be built to handle it without issue. Then there is the cost of the turbos and intercooler on top of that. Compare that to a V8 which costs around $7000 (I think) and will weigh roughly the same and make around the same power.

[gunslinger]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

I beg to differ ...


Plus a 425+ turbo V6 from the factory is a rather different engine than a ~375 hp turbo V6. For the higher power levels it would have to be built to handle it without issue. Then there is the cost of the turbos and intercooler on top of that. Compare that to a V8 which costs around $7000 (I think) and will weigh roughly the same and make around the same power.

Very true...

Many people have posted about the V6TT being "lighter" than a V8, which is far from the truth. The LSx series of motors have weighed all roughly the same from the LS1- LS7 (minus the S/C versions) at about 450 lbs dry weight. HP ranged from 350-505.

The V6, with it's 4 cams and long chain, turbos, piping and intercooler would be hard pressed to weigh less than 450 lbs. Also of concern is the HP and torque curves, which I would guess probably favor the LSx.

Mileage for the LSx series can also be very good for the horsepower they produce (I can get ~28MPG out of my 98 Z28 if cruising in 6th at the speed limit).

I think putting a V6TT in the place of N/A V8 is not a positive move. True, a S/C LSA might weigh ~200lbs more than a N/A V8, but the HP numbers will also be much higher than what can be reliably produced by a 3.6L V6TT.

I am still waiting for a DI Gen V motor and the Z28 would be the perfect place to debut such an engine. (Arguments on displacement and HP ratings would require a whole different thread...)

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by gunslinger

I am still waiting for a DI Gen V motor and the Z28 would be the perfect place to debut such an engine.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by gunslinger

Very true...

Many people have posted about the V6TT being "lighter" than a V8, which is far from the truth. The LSx series of motors have weighed all roughly the same from the LS1- LS7 (minus the S/C versions) at about 450 lbs dry weight. HP ranged from 350-505.

The V6, with it's 4 cams and long chain, turbos, piping and intercooler would be hard pressed to weigh less than 450 lbs. Also of concern is the HP and torque curves, which I would guess probably favor the LSx.

Mileage for the LSx series can also be very good for the horsepower they produce (I can get ~28MPG out of my 98 Z28 if cruising in 6th at the speed limit).

I think putting a V6TT in the place of N/A V8 is not a positive move. True, a S/C LSA might weigh ~200lbs more than a N/A V8, but the HP numbers will also be much higher than what can be reliably produced by a 3.6L V6TT.

I am still waiting for a DI Gen V motor and the Z28 would be the perfect place to debut such an engine. (Arguments on displacement and HP ratings would require a whole different thread...)

This IMO is the way GM should go. New car new engine (double showcase).
Then offer a supercharged version of it as a ZL? GT500 killer.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by gunslinger

I am still waiting for a DI Gen V motor and the Z28 would be the perfect place to debut such an engine. (Arguments on displacement and HP ratings would require a whole different thread...)

I disagree, because the SS would get similar engines either at the same time or shortly there after. Making Gen V power plants the defining feature wouldn't be enough unless there is a large tuning and displacement difference between the two, which could just as easily happen with Gen IV engines anyway.