Hotchkis versus Pfadt Sway Bars

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Avalnch

Wow, what a lot of info to digest and I appreciate every word and graph! I have looked at both the Pfadt and Pedders writeups and my head's spinner more than ever.

OK, what I am after is as much front end stick as I can get without the rear walking out on me. RichJ's comment about more abrupt transitions for auto-xing holds true, so stiffening the front end has always been a priority for us SOLO racers. For auto-xing, understeer is more desireable than oversteer (in general). I've got a set of 20x9 and 20x10 rims coming and am waiting for some more r-compound tires to come to market and I plan to run 275 front and 315 rears. Given this, would I benefit from a front adjustable bar?

After talking to my racing buddies, I'm now sold on coilovers, so I'll be lowering the car too.

Did you know that Rich was a SCCA autocross champion?

[2quick]

lots of great info in here so just a bump.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by speeD3m0n2010

Hey, Avalnch, I just run my Ducati and Camaro to its full potential, mostly on the track daze. I'm not clowning you, yea I run my car as much possible, but its to relay info to my good friend Mike Haddad @ Haddad Motorsports and the Pedders Nation on my track daze with their gear. So far, she handles nice with no report(s) of complaints. This month, she has a track day at Willow Springs and then the Mojave Mile Shootout. Post my time and video for the 1 mile run.

Did Haddad both these on your Camaro at the same time as the Pedders bits?

[BMR Suspension]

Originally Posted by Avalnch

OK, now that I'm seriously about upgrading the suspension, I've expanded my search to the four major sway bar brands that represent themselves on this forum. Along with new struts/springs (aka coil overs which will need its own post), sway bars is equally important in improving the suspension performance of any vehicle. I've compile a side by side comparison of the different sway bars here. The info is directly off each vendors' websites, so there's no guess what's what.

Attachment 162560

The comparison is only of the "sport" sway bars. I won't be racing the car enough to warrant spending over a grand for a set of full out bars.

I tried to eye-ball the stock bars and they look to be about 7/8" front and 15/16" rear (using a tape measure). What the deal with that? The front OE bar is smaller than the rear?!?

I'm over the hollow vs solid debate. My friend's ZR1 has hollow bars and he swears by them for the weight savings. I'm OK either way since I have more HP than I know what to do with (which is a very good thing). ^_^

Can anyone fill in the missing info on the Pedders and Pfadt bars? They are not published on their websites. Also, what are the bar weights? I've left a column empty for that info even though I just said above that "it doesn't matter".

Right now, based on the info at hand, I'm leaning towards the Hotchkis bars because of their stated rear stiffness. I was looking forward to the Pedders bars because they included heavier adjustable endlinks, but the required drilling has made me reconsider.

One major question regarding the adjustable aftermarket sway bars is how well the OEM endlinks will hold up with the bars set at full stiffness? Some expert advice is needed here, please. I have no experience with the Camaro's new style endlinks.

I think I will finally end up with a mix of various components from everyone since no one vendor has everything that I'm after. I'm looking forward to all the wrenching this winter. Just wish I had the foresight to install a hoist in my garage. *sigh*

Oops!!! There must be a typo here!! The rates that are stated in the Hotchkis line are actually the BMR rates. The BMR sway bars are 3-hole adjustable. Front rates are 98/146/214% stiffer than stock SS sway bars. Rear rates are 99/173/301% stiffer.

Keep in mind that the BMR sway bars are the least expensive because we make them ourselves. We cut them, bend them, weld them, and powdercoat them in our Tampa manufacturing facility. This allows us to control the quality and keep the costs down.

Stop by the next time you are in Tampa and we'll give you a shop tour.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Avalnch

Hi Pete,

That's what I like to hear. I'd hate to not be able to put the car back to full stock. I'll be patient and shoot you a PM as suggested.

No more drilling and best of class endlinks starting last Friday.

[2quick]

Where does it say that the bmr are the least expensive?

[ipimpthisc]

looks like for the price and material/construction i will go lsr

[Avalnch]

Originally Posted by BMR Fabrication

Oops!!! There must be a typo here!! The rates that are stated in the Hotchkis line are actually the BMR rates.

Oops indeed. Sorry BMR, I've fixed up the chart and added some info.
SWAY BAR COMPARE.doc


I'm not sure if the Pfadt rool stiffness can be directly translated to "% stiffer" like the others. If it does, then, WOW, that rear bar is HUGE! From the weights quoted by Pfadt, the rear is hollow and the front is solid.

OK, to set the record straight, I've order the following:

Pfadt sport sway bars
Pfadt end links
Pfadt trailing arms
Pfadt coil overs (couldn't resist the sale price)
BMR adjustable toe links

Besides the obvious price advantage of the Pfadt coil overs, I did not just get springs because for a true performance upgrade, both shocks and springs need to be upgraded at the same time.

All the Pfadt gear was received and is just raring to go! Still waiting on the BMR toe links.

When everything is installed, I'll post pics and hopefully some vids.

[1977and2010]

That's exactly the way I went, good choices. Still in the process of installing. Waiting for spacers to fill the larger holes drilled from the other company's swaybars. Great stuff

[JusticePete]

The Pedders sway bar data has been available since October of 2009 on line.
Here is a listing of bar strengths. We specifically do not name names because we believe each company should publish the strength of their bars and not just a percentage.



The Camaro5 community is well informed. You can add and subtract to determine which bar is the strongest, but be sure to watch the front to rear strength ratios as it has the most influence on understeer / oversteer.

Our sway bars now ship with what we consider to be the best Camaro endlink available. The reason we USED to require drilling to open up the holes in the strut and lower control arm was to have a ball stud and shaft that were stronger than the OE and efficient for Pedders sways bars. We have now sourced an exceptionally efficient endlink ball joint that is also strong enough to meet our criteria WITHOUT drilling.



To get the most out of any sway bar upgrade you should be upgrading your endlinks. Pedders sway bars with the NEW STYLE ENDLINKs are in stock and shipping at the old price. We will be selling these eXtreme endlinks to use with OE bars or brand-x bars at about $60 more per pair than the old style links. That will push the price of a front and rear sway bar set up roughly $120 making the current pricing a Best Buy.

[IBM/2SS/RS/LS3]

My head is spinning.......

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by IBM/2SS/RS/LS3

My head is spinning.......

Better your head than your car

[PfadtRacing]

Originally Posted by Avalnch

Oops indeed. Sorry BMR, I've fixed up the chart and added some info.
Attachment 167733
Attachment 167732

I'm not sure if the Pfadt rool stiffness can be directly translated to "% stiffer" like the others. If it does, then, WOW, that rear bar is HUGE! From the weights quoted by Pfadt, the rear is hollow and the front is solid.

OK, to set the record straight, I've order the following:

Pfadt sport sway bars
Pfadt end links
Pfadt trailing arms
Pfadt coil overs (couldn't resist the sale price)
BMR adjustable toe links

Besides the obvious price advantage of the Pfadt coil overs, I did not just get springs because for a true performance upgrade, both shocks and springs need to be upgraded at the same time.

All the Pfadt gear was received and is just raring to go! Still waiting on the BMR toe links.

When everything is installed, I'll post pics and hopefully some vids.

Avalnch, thanks for your business. You made the right choice considering how much success customers are having with this set up. Let us know how the install goes.

In regards to the values, you have to remember that all the data we posted is normalized for comparison to a known value (in this case the roll stiffness value of the OEM FE3 rear sway bar, which has a value of 1). This is a typical practice by vehicle engineers to present data comparisons in a relevant manner. Posting numbers with no units that are "best guesses" of a meaningless metric to the driving experience, is not what Pfadt considers relevant. We will always post data that informs the end user how this will affect the driving experience.

And also, when looking at normalized values, take into account that the front sway bar and rear sway bar have different motion ratios, so you can NEVER compare a front and rear bars relative effectiveness (or roll resistance) directly, as that comparison is meaningless, and arbitrary. You have to compare the balance ratio as we have done in our chart. As an illustration, the front OE FE3 sway bar is 5.9 times stiffer than the OE FE3 rear bar. So when you see varying numbers, front to rear, you have to take into account its affect on the suspension as an assembly, NOT just a single component.

Thanks again and I look forward to you posting your impressions! Also, yes, our Sport Sway Bar kit includes a solid front bar, and a hollow rear bar.

[PfadtRacing]

Originally Posted by 1977and2010

That's exactly the way I went, good choices. Still in the process of installing. Waiting for spacers to fill the larger holes drilled from the other company's swaybars. Great stuff

Josh, they are in the mail, sir! Look for them this week.