Road & track Aug/10

[chasgotti]

I chuckle as I pass 4-5 mustangs every day... with the v6 Synergy they are still looking at me... not vice versa...

Love my Camaro...

...smiles like a little kid...

[REEFBLUE93]

Originally Posted by chasgotti

I chuckle as I pass 4-5 mustangs every day... with the v6 Synergy they are still looking at me... not vice versa...

Love my Camaro...

...smiles like a little kid...

The color on your Camaro is really cool. I've seen one from a distance on the highway here where I live. I live 3 miles from work though and there are days that I will see 3-4 5th Gen Camaros on my way to and from work...

[MIT'13]

You'd think these Mustang guys would know more about their own golden boy. Maybe the problem is that they don't actually own the model that they are fighting to the death to defend.
Here it is from the blue oval's very own website, open to you all.
Bembro Brakes: $1695 obviously this won't effect speed, but it does make a difference in handling, and probably was included in this test.
19" wheels: $995 not sure if they had these in the test, but that's another K
3.73 Gear Ratio: $395 as mentioned above.
So with the minimal amount of effort I put in, I accounted for a plausible 3 grand of the Mustang's price. Take that however you will. Much to my dismay, I was not able to find the $7,000 jet engine upgrade package that was used in the magazine.
As for the Camaro V6, why is this so hard to understand? Yes, the 2010 and 2011 engines are identical. The first time they measured it out and conservatively stated 304hp. For this year, they took the same exact engine, retested it (it may have even been through the same certifier), and were able to confirm that it had at least 312hp. So no big deal that these mags are testing 2010s against 2011s. That is unless you count the 2011's HUD, which makes the Camaro feel even more like a star-fighter, especially since Ford made the mistake of not opting for those jet engine upgrades.
Lastly this test, what is everyone even arguing about? Are car magazines biased towards anything that's new? Of course! So the Mustang was crowned winner overall this time. We still beat them to 120mph and through the quarter. I'd take that over a win because one's seats are more comfortable than the others or a literally .1 advantage in the slalom. Now go enjoy your cars!

[esperman]

Originally Posted by RT21

When GM stated the V6 HP last year is was an educated guess...much like Ford does. Then they got it certified this time and found out they were low. Yeah, it's the same car, but it's certified now. I'm sure next year Ford will just make another educated guess and their V6 will be 313 hp.

GM didn't guess...they just used the SAE certification from the CTS..the only GM car that had the new DI 3.6 in it at the time.

Exhaust changes in the Camaro actually bumped the number up from 304 to 312.

[John Shields]

Originally Posted by 1bad65

Exactly my point Reef.

Some guy complained they used a 2010 Camaro instead of a 2011 Camaro and that the 2011 had more hp. I just said it's still the exact same car, but apparently that is too complex for some people.

Notice when I asked that guy to point out any performanance differences between the 2010 and the 2011 he didnt point out any. It's the same way the 2005-2009 Mustangs were identical in performance in every one of those years.

I didn't comment any further to you because I'm tired of justifying myself to ignorant people like you. Yes I realize it's the same car... but why conduct a test WITHOUT the equal playing field. Set a brand new 2011 against a brand new 2011 and quote the numbers correctly. Don't use a '10 and '11. That's my only point.

As far as things being too complex... apparently you have serious issues with that when you don't think $7,000 in upgrades isn't substantial. Which we have yet to clarify what that is. I see nothing in options on the Ford website to say, "This could equal $7,000". The only way that could happen is if they added other things to the test vehicle that's not listed on the website.

Again BS article from a BS magazine... and a BS conversation that's going nowhere. I wont contribute to this nonsense anymore.

[1bad65]

Originally Posted by John Shields

I didn't comment any further to you because I'm tired of justifying myself to ignorant people like you. Yes I realize it's the same car... but why conduct a test WITHOUT the equal playing field. Set a brand new 2011 against a brand new 2011 and quote the numbers correctly. Don't use a '10 and '11. That's my only point.

Ok, tell us all what the difference would have been had they used a 2011. I'm dying to hear this one!

Originally Posted by John Shields

As far as things being too complex... apparently you have serious issues with that when you don't think $7,000 in upgrades isn't substantial. Which we have yet to clarify what that is. I see nothing in options on the Ford website to say, "This could equal $7,000". The only way that could happen is if they added other things to the test vehicle that's not listed on the website.

If you have the intelligence to use the "Build Your Own" feature on the Mustang website, you can see what the options you choose add up to be. Of course this requires basic math skills, so holler at me if you need help with that.

Originally Posted by John Shields

Again BS article from a BS magazine... and a BS conversation that's going nowhere. I wont contribute to this nonsense anymore.

It's going nowhere because you just can't accept that the car you like lost. Wipe the tears out of your eyes and stop crying.

Notice that even some fellow Camaro owners are laughing at you, yet in your desperation you keep going and going like a retarded Energizer bunny.

[chain777]

Originally Posted by John Shields

I didn't comment any further to you because I'm tired of justifying myself to ignorant people like you. Yes I realize it's the same car... but why conduct a test WITHOUT the equal playing field. Set a brand new 2011 against a brand new 2011 and quote the numbers correctly. Don't use a '10 and '11. That's my only point.

As far as things being too complex... apparently you have serious issues with that when you don't think $7,000 in upgrades isn't substantial. Which we have yet to clarify what that is. I see nothing in options on the Ford website to say, "This could equal $7,000". The only way that could happen is if they added other things to the test vehicle that's not listed on the website.

Again BS article from a BS magazine... and a BS conversation that's going nowhere. I wont contribute to this nonsense anymore.

This ain't no conspiracy. There's no "hidden" performance options on the car. If you'd just look at the article on the website, you'd see how the options are broken down. This is a loaded premium GT, with a glass roof.

Here's the data sheet: http://www.roadandtrack.com/content/...emium_data.pdf

And how is comparing a 2010 Camaro instead of a 2011 not a level playing field. They have identical performance.

[Lazerbrainz2k3]

Originally Posted by REEFBLUE93

They guessed at it, fair enough. They knew that was not spot on so they had "someone" certify it and the numbers were actually a little higher. GM then comes back the next yr and states that the hp is actually XXX now. They just restated the numbers, adjusted the numbers, how in the hell ever you want to put it.

"Someone" ... as in the Society of Automotive Engineers? The same people who've rated the horsepower on your Mustangs? I wouldn't go too far in sneering at them...

How I want to put it is, they initially lowballed the numbers, then got them confirmed by experts. The 5th generation Camaro V6 has had 312 hp since the first 2010 rolled off the assembly line. Brand loyalty aside, where's the difficulty in understanding this?

[Ironheadspearo]

going into buying the camaro I knew the v6 mustang might be faster.... it didn't deter me from buying a camaro because the mustang is ugly this year. if I had the dough for a roush then maybe i could have went with a mustang but in reality you can only go 70 on the highway legally anything more can get you in trouble. I will take the look of a camaro over the mustang anyday.

[MIT'13]

Originally Posted by Ironheadspearo

going into buying the camaro I knew the v6 mustang might be faster.... it didn't deter me from buying a camaro because the mustang is ugly this year. if I had the dough for a roush then maybe i could have went with a mustang but in reality you can only go 70 on the highway legally anything more can get you in trouble. I will take the look of a camaro over the mustang anyday.

Agreed man. Before the facelift, the 5th gen Mustangs were pretty cool in their own way. Now with those valleys on the sides of the hood and the Salvador Dali take on the tail lights, it just looks like a mess. Not everyone can go fast and look good doing it.

[ssump29]

Originally Posted by 1bad65

I'm not sure. I test drove one last weekend. It was ~$35k, and it had quite a few options. It had the Shaker stereo, upgraded wheels, leather, Sync sytem, etc. But the only performance option on that car was the 3.73 gears. I actually looked at the 4-5 they had on the lot, and the only performance options any of them had were the gears. The brochure did not even list a CAI option like the older (2005-2009) Stangs brochures did.

As for the wife part, that's EXACTLY what happened to me.

I'm pretty sure the addition of Brembo brakes all around is a performance upgrade. Because remember to get Brembos on all four wheels you do have to upgrade and pay for it. So thats part of the 7,000 since its a 1700 option.

[alfie43]

That's it, I'm outta here.

Unsubscribed.

Alfie

[Berean]

Originally Posted by MIT'13

.....and the Salvador Dali take on the tail lights....

[MIT'13]

Originally Posted by Berean