2013 Ford Mustang Shelby GT 500 650 HP! How will it stack up against the ZL1?

[Rock36]

Originally Posted by obzidian

EXACTLY!

If you do a quick search for TVS GT500 on youtube, you'll find that most are running, at the SAME PSI the 2013 GT500 (15psi), in the 650-660rwhp range. That is well over 700hp crank. It doesn't really make sense how a larger motor with a the same blower with the same PSI is making less power unless its really d-tuned. Which I doubt.

Honestly, either that PSI number is off or the car is really, really underrated... by a big margin. 100hp almost.

Now, if you want to go there, VMP has a TVS in his personal car that hits 745rwhp on pump and 810rwhp+ on C16. The blower is turning over 20 psi though and it may be out if its efficiency range... not 100% sure on that.

.

I reread the press release and I cant see where it says the 2013 will run 15 psi in stock factory trim.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

The bigger issue is resin in a driveshaft exposed to heat.

Yes, an important property of the resin is the Glass Transition Temperature.

Glass Transition Temperature (Tg): Temperature at which resin properties diminish appreciably, sometimes referred to the resins "red line" temperature. When a cured polymer is heated, vast changes in thermal and mechanical properties occur. These changes are particularly large near the glass transition temperature, Tg. Below the Tg, the polymer is hard and glassy, and above the Tg it has a rubbery state. At this temperature, tensile strength, hardness, electrical properties and chemical resistance depreciate rapidly, while tensile elongation and flexibility increase markedly. Tg usually occurs over a range of temperature, but for simplicity a single temperature is selected as Tg.

[serpent]

Hey guys anything can happen, just a reminder that Ford doesn't know what their doing and restating that it could be 600hp, it could be 630hp because "anything can happen".

Gonna get a pos v6 eclipse for my tax return to see what some people are smoking!

[Uneducated Guess]

Originally Posted by Ltespd

Its about bragging rights. The 1st production muscle car to hit 200mph sounds impressive. But I agree its not very practical. When you compare 184mph to 200mph thats a big gap.

I realize that, but like I said, it's insignificant. it's a very impressive number and it is quite a gap. had they not created so much downforce with the camaro, I believe that gap would be a bit smaller.

[HEMI DAVE]

Originally Posted by MaroSS

Yeah but do you really see this happening while GM has the vette?

Thats the problem right there.......

.....and Dodges problem is the Viper........

...and Ford will be the one to beat because of these "problems".....

[serpent]

Not to stray too far off topic, but I hope the next Viper isn't f'd up because of the new ownership, Fiat (possible engine hand me downs, like what Audi did with Lamborghini) and possible rumors of offering a standard v8 Viper and a v10 premium Viper...

[IOMZL1]

Originally Posted by Uneducated Guess

I realize that, but like I said, it's insignificant. it's a very impressive number and it is quite a gap. had they not created so much downforce with the camaro, I believe that gap would be a bit smaller.

I think someone calculated on here that the ZL1 top speed would have been 194 given gearing and HP but the added downforce / drag must have reduced that 10MPH. I look at it this way – I’d much rather have the handling, downforce, and gearing be tuned for a speed range I’m more likely to use rather than 200+ mph.

speculation/ I really do wonder if that 2013 GT500 200+ will be useable speed. They said they’ve added some downforce but hopefully it is enough to keep it stable. You might be so nervous at 185mph you’d have to ease off as it appears they had to do in the ZR1 ring video at 184 mph. If the car is still netting lift instead of downforce (which seems likely given mileage and no GG tax) the car will become more and more nervous the faster you go where the ZL1 becomes more planted the faster you go. It would be very interesting to see a video of the car on the back straight at the ring. /speculation

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Uneducated Guess

I'm just gonna put this out there...200mph is just a number that they're throwing out there to oust chevrolet. is it capable? probably. how many will actually achieve this? little to none. just like I don't expect many to hit the top speed in the ZL1 either. the top speed, imo, is insignificant.

Regardless if it can... is the chassis up to it?

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by tooslow

You're killing me. Based on the surface, your comments seem to suggest that the engineers at Ford are somehow inferior to the engineers at GM. Likely, many of them attended the same schools and have similar backgrounds. In fact, it even likely that many have them have been employed at both GM and Ford in their work history! To suggest that in their zeal to create a better SVT product they forgot or were not smart enough to sweat the details makes you come off as petty and biased. Just my observation.

I believe my commenst about the SVT engineers were the polar opposite. Allow me to explain.

When the current Mustang was released the sway bar mounted under the radiator and the front sub-frame ended just forward of the front 'axle'. This configuration allows independent flex of the monocoque and sub-frame reducing the efficiency of the front sway bar. This was obvious to all of us at Pedders. We released a triangulated aluminum front chassis brace. With the release of the 5.0 and new steering Ford added a steel brace to accomplish the same thing.

The point is there is absolutely no way Pedders knew this and Ford didn't. They knew, but to reach a price point selected by the bean counters and marketing experts they went a different direction. This is not something that happens only to Ford. It is common to all vehicle manufacturers aside from a select few exotics. The guys at SVT know what they need to to to build what I consider a high quality 2013 GT500. The question is will the bean counters and marketing gurus allow them to do it.

With the ZL1 it is clear that a number of consumers are disappointing the base price. They see the ZL1 as having too much content. It is a tough call the the OEM to get just right.

Originally Posted by tooslow

And that's not even a picture of the 2013 GT500, it's some aftermarket cf driveshaft on some owners car. Do you even know if the driveshaft on the 2013 has/does not have shielding similar to what your suggesting?

If I gave the impression that the CF driveshaft was on the 2013 GT500 I apologize. My post was in response to one that referenced reducing mass to save weight.

[Rock36]

Edmunds Inside Line posted an update to their blog piece on the 2013 GT500

**Update: The tires are 265 R19 up frot, 285 R20 (same as last time) out back and the front discs are now 14.96 inches (up by almost an inch) and squeezed by six-piston Brembo calipers (that's two more pistons than 2011

http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...l1-slayer.html

Good luck with the traction if this update is accurate.

[Uneducated Guess]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Regardless if it can... is the chassis up to it?

They've already clocked it at 202. I'll see if I can find the article again
And update this post

[Rock36]

Originally Posted by Uneducated Guess

They've already clocked it at 202. I'll see if I can find the article again
And update this post

http://mustangsdaily.com/blog/2011/1...speed-202-mph/

I read it here

[Uneducated Guess]

Originally Posted by Rock36

http://mustangsdaily.com/blog/2011/1...speed-202-mph/

I read it here

thanks. my work computer is ridiculously slow right now.

[obzidian]

Originally Posted by MaroSS

Yeah but do you really see this happening while GM has the vette?

And that is the "problem" with the GM, if you will. They will never produce a muscle car that will trump the vette. However, even at 700hp crank, the vette is still in good shape, Z06 and ZR1 only. Right now the ZL1 is just as fast as a base vette or the GS so that's not really a big issue, apparently to GM. Of course the vette's are much more nimble (i've owned two c6 z06s... they are amazing!) but still, straightline performance they are almost equals.

Honestly, my biggest gripe with the ZL1 is the weight of the car and that LSA isn't a fully forged engine. Everything else could be chalked up to preference or biases. A non-magnetic ride option would be great as that would help the car shed some lbs. Also, why not something like a 1LE? Stripped version from factory? Lighter flywheel, Lighter wheels (The ZL1's are lighter than the factory SS wheels), battery, CF body panels, holes cut into the frame.... w/e! Go Big!!

Originally Posted by Rock36

.

I reread the press release and I cant see where it says the 2013 will run 15 psi in stock factory trim.

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/201...-and-info-news

It's toward the end of the first, winded sentence.

It could be just a stipulation but if its not, I don't see how this engine is not producing 700hp crank, at the very least. The increase in cubes (5.4 vs 5.8) are not going to solely increase the power output by 100hp (550hp 5.4 vs 650hp 5.8) and the blower alone is more efficient but I don't think that much more.

It may very well be pushing more psi's but again, @ 15psi.. well, ford is really holding back on the info if that is true.