Electric Vehicles

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

My best guess is that C&D may be including F250, F350, F450, F550 in their numbers. My numbers come from my company’s data which is drawn from DMVs and Secretaries of State for all 50 states, all Canadian provinces, and Puerto Rico and is usually the source data for any reporting of vehicle sales and registration.

I think it’s appropriate to aggregate those numbers, if that’s what they did, just as 1LT, 2LT, SS and ZL1 all are counted as Camaro sales.

I also think it’s appropriate to mention that F150s are sold without stealing from taxpayers to subsidize them, which isn’t true about the Model Y.

It’s safe to say that without the government’s thumb on the scale considerably fewer Model Ys would be sold.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

I think it’s appropriate to aggregate those numbers, if that’s what they did, just as 1LT, 2LT, SS and ZL1 all are counted as Camaro sales.

I also think it’s appropriate to mention that F150s are sold without stealing from taxpayers to subsidize them, which isn’t true about the Model Y.

It’s safe to say that without the government’s thumb on the scale considerably fewer Model Ys would be sold.

F150 sales are mostly registered as personal vehicles with some registered as commercial vehicles. F250 are mostly registered as commercial vehicles with a few registered as personal vehicles. F350, F450, and F550 are almost all registered as commercial vehicles. In the same vein, Silverado 3500, 4500, 5500 are not included in Silverado passenger vehicle sales.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

F150 sales are mostly registered as personal vehicles with some registered as commercial vehicles. F250 are mostly registered as commercial vehicles with a few registered as personal vehicles. F350, F450, and F550 are almost all registered as commercial vehicles. In the same vein, Silverado 3500, 4500, 5500 are not included in Silverado passenger vehicle sales.

Car and Driver CNBC and other media disagree with you. I can point to published articles that support my contention, so far you haven’t, AND you are relying on a single quarters sales that ended three months ago. Mine are current.

Respectfully, you know I’m right. The F150 is a more popular vehicle. There has never been an EV or a Tesla that is more popular, even with government subsidies.

[Blue 13]

I know of at least 10 people that daily F350/450 or 2500/3500 including me. Are a lot used by landscapers and contractors? Of course, but it’s still sold. I mean ford used a huge amount of fleet & rental sales to be the #1 selling truck for 48 years or whatever. Kids are fascinated with electric garbage like Tesla because they are given an iPad at 4 and have no desire to drive so the incredibly stupid autonomous cars appeal to them.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by Blue 13

I know of at least 10 people that daily F350/450 or 2500/3500 including me. Are a lot used by landscapers and contractors? Of course, but it’s still sold. I mean ford used a huge amount of fleet & rental sales to be the #1 selling truck for 48 years or whatever. Kids are fascinated with electric garbage like Tesla because they are given an iPad at 4 and have no desire to drive so the incredibly stupid autonomous cars appeal to them.

I am sure this has been said 100 times in this thread and it is true.

We are a dying bread. My sons are ICE but their kids will not give a rats ass less. We are getting to the point of JUST GET ME THERE (face in screen).

I personally wish I could see the day when there are 1-2-3-4 lanes of traffic, 1 for fast through, 2 for fast through short distance, 3 for merge in and out, 4 entering the throughway. Traffic would flow, and you will get there on scheduled time. But it will be a while for that automation to work.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

Car and Driver CNBC and other media disagree with you. I can point to published articles that support my contention, so far you haven’t, AND you are relying on a single quarters sales that ended three months ago. Mine are current.

Respectfully, you know I’m right. The F150 is a more popular vehicle. There has never been an EV or a Tesla that is more popular, even with government subsidies.

Car & Driver, CNBC, and other media sources buy vehicle sales data from S&P Global. I work at S&P Global and have the same data they buy at my fingertips real-time. So basically, I could be their source.

The first picture is a part of my dashboard where I can go in and pull the data live.

The second picture is from the July 10th edition of Automotive News reporting June 23 sales compared to June 22 sales for F-series. It also compares 6-month sales for each year.

The third picture is the same thing, but for Tesla. I'm not totally certain whose numbers AN uses, but they buy forecast data from us and at least two other forecasting suppliers that I know of. They probably do their own analysis based on information from multiple data sources.

The fourth picture is from a live pull of sales by quarter for F-Series (and this includes F-150, F-250, F-250 Super Duty, and F-350. Technically, F-250 Super Duty and F-350 are commercial vehicles and should be subtracted from these numbers, but since a few people do buy them as personal vehicles, I've included them. I highlighted in green which vehicle led each quarter in sales. F-series leads every quarter in the US, but the lead is shrinking. Model Y leads every quarter except one globally and the lead is growing.

That enough source info? End of June '23 recent enough?

[docwra]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Car & Driver, CNBC, and other media sources buy vehicle sales data from S&P Global. I work at S&P Global and have the same data they buy at my fingertips real-time. So basically, I could be their source.

Ahhh, but youre still wrong because Wyzz Kydd says so, as are the first 50 hits on google, all he has to do is make a statement and it becomes FACT.

BTW the difference is that Im quoting global car sales, not just USA like the CNBC articles he cited. What other country buys F150's FFS?

It would be funny if it wasnt so sad; by all means make your argument but refuting facts/reality because they dont fit with your beliefs and still go on to claim youre correct is demented.
See earlier comments about wind/solar power not being cheaper, or +50% of EU energy being clean - they are extensively reported and proven facts, you cant claim otherwise and expect to be taken seriously.

FWIW we dont have blackouts in Europe and energy prices are pretty much the same in all countries .......... but how that is relevant to electric car sales I have no idea, youre just coming across as a bit childish TBH.

Anyway, back on topic, EV sales are growing and will continue to grow, as energy gets cheaper they will become even more popular.

[JamesMyBoy]

As a retired Nuclear Power Plant operator, I've been following this discussion with some interest... I do have one question - where is it that energy is getting cheaper?
My utilities board of directors decided to shutdown our Nuc plant a couple years ago, saying that it could not generate power cheaper than the competition (assumed to be wind, solar and gas turbines), yet electric rates continue to go up.
I'm waiting for my electric bills to go down...

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by JamesMyBoy

As a retired Nuclear Power Plant operator, I've been following this discussion with some interest... I do have one question - where is it that energy is getting cheaper?
My utilities board of directors decided to shutdown our Nuc plant a couple years ago, saying that it could not generate power cheaper than the competition (assumed to be wind, solar and gas turbines), yet electric rates continue to go up.
I'm waiting for my electric bills to go down...

I am waiting for Gates to drop his mininuke plants all over the place.

[FarmerFran]

So it looks like Ford and GM will be using Tesla plugs. The 3 of them seem to want to make that the standard

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by JamesMyBoy

As a retired Nuclear Power Plant operator, I've been following this discussion with some interest... I do have one question - where is it that energy is getting cheaper?
My utilities board of directors decided to shutdown our Nuc plant a couple years ago, saying that it could not generate power cheaper than the competition (assumed to be wind, solar and gas turbines), yet electric rates continue to go up.
I'm waiting for my electric bills to go down...

Yeah, that’ll never happen. Once people get “used to” paying the new rates, they never go down. Efficiency improvements just become additional profits. When’s the last time your cable bill went down (without switching providers)?

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

So it looks like Ford and GM will be using Tesla plugs. The 3 of them seem to want to make that the standard

A lot more than just Ford and GM now. Most OEMs are lining up to follow suit. Some of the competing networks like EVGo are now planning on adding NACS connectors to their networks.

Everybody wins…Tesla wins BIG (look at the stock history over the last 30 days).

[docwra]

Originally Posted by JamesMyBoy

As a retired Nuclear Power Plant operator, I've been following this discussion with some interest... I do have one question - where is it that energy is getting cheaper?

https://www.theecoexperts.co.uk/blog...n-fossil-fuels
Decent article on cost of production, TBH its to be expected that as technology improves it gets cheaper:

"price of solar has fallen by 82% since 2010 – with the cost decreasing by 13% in 2021 alone"

The consumer price (in Europe at least) has risen recently but a lot of this is due to Ukraine war - UK prices are set to reduce by around 20% this month.
Our electricity prices are index linked to natural gas prices, if gas goes down so does electricity, I dont know if you guys have the same mechanism but it does go both ways here.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Car & Driver, CNBC, and other media sources buy vehicle sales data from S&P Global. I work at S&P Global and have the same data they buy at my fingertips real-time. So basically, I could be their source.

The first picture is a part of my dashboard where I can go in and pull the data live.

The second picture is from the July 10th edition of Automotive News reporting June 23 sales compared to June 22 sales for F-series. It also compares 6-month sales for each year.

The third picture is the same thing, but for Tesla. I'm not totally certain whose numbers AN uses, but they buy forecast data from us and at least two other forecasting suppliers that I know of. They probably do their own analysis based on information from multiple data sources.

The fourth picture is from a live pull of sales by quarter for F-Series (and this includes F-150, F-250, F-250 Super Duty, and F-350. Technically, F-250 Super Duty and F-350 are commercial vehicles and should be subtracted from these numbers, but since a few people do buy them as personal vehicles, I've included them. I highlighted in green which vehicle led each quarter in sales. F-series leads every quarter in the US, but the lead is shrinking. Model Y leads every quarter except one globally and the lead is growing.

That enough source info? End of June '23 recent enough?

Good morning. I want to take a moment to say that you and I have gone back and forth on this topic for quite some time now, and during that time you have been polite and kept the discussion centered around the topic, never straying into personal attacks. That's one reason I enjoy our exchanges. I hope I've done the same in my interactions with you.

Now to your data.

First, although on a personal level I trust that you're honestly presenting data, I maintain that you have an inherent professional bias. This is what you do for a living and it would be unwise to post on a public forum anything that isn't in accord with your company's position on EVs.

Second, I respectfully decline to accept data that is not publicly available, nor do I accept an argument that essentially says, I'm an expert, you're not, I have data that's not available to you and I expect you to accept that data as a part of my position.

I do believe you're an expert in this field, but as a matter of principle I do not accept arguments that require me to accept something on faith. Cite an independent source, with links, and I'll acknowledge that you're correct. Post pictures of things on your desktop that I can't verify and I won't.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by docwra

Ahhh, but youre still wrong because Wyzz Kydd says so, as are the first 50 hits on google, all he has to do is make a statement and it becomes FACT.

BTW the difference is that Im quoting global car sales, not just USA like the CNBC articles he cited. What other country buys F150's FFS?

It would be funny if it wasnt so sad; by all means make your argument but refuting facts/reality because they dont fit with your beliefs and still go on to claim youre correct is demented.
See earlier comments about wind/solar power not being cheaper, or +50% of EU energy being clean - they are extensively reported and proven facts, you cant claim otherwise and expect to be taken seriously.

FWIW we dont have blackouts in Europe and energy prices are pretty much the same in all countries .......... but how that is relevant to electric car sales I have no idea, youre just coming across as a bit childish TBH.

Anyway, back on topic, EV sales are growing and will continue to grow, as energy gets cheaper they will become even more popular.

I question your honesty. Europe and England have an ongoing power problem that is well documented. Energy costs there are significantly higher than in the US and that is also well documented.

I question your intelligence. Anyone who wonders why I do that has only to read your posts and it becomes self evident. I'll point out your comments that you don't see a connection between energy prices and EV sales, and your completely erroneous statement that energy prices are going to become cheaper as examples. The fact that you don't understand the intermittent availability of wind and solar power and the concept of peak loads are additional examples.

I do not respect your hypocrisy as you pontificate about global warming ad nauseum while you drive a gas guzzler and work in arguably one of the most polluting industries on the planet.

You consistently engage in personal attacks including stating that I'm 'demented' and 'childish'.

This site has an ignore function which I'm now going to take advantage of so I can be spared the tedium of reading your posts.