The 2011+ Mustang Thread

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by vernal

I'm looking at a graph someone put up on a 5.0 vs 6.2, are you saying the mechanical multiplication of the gears is not reflected in this graph since they ran it in the 1:1? In other words, a true dyno for full-car evaluation should show all 6 gears? I would figure a rwhp figure would incorporate gear multiplication.

I've seen many a smaller horse with high weight beat a bigger horse with less weight, so I'm not trying to be biased, but I also have personal experience that I've been thinking about.

Back when I was young and foolish, me and my 3.73-geared 92 used to do "informal acceleration tests," and there was an occasional wager on the outcome. I'm giving away one of my favorite tricks, but since I don't do this anymore I guess it doesn't really matter. I usually bargained so that a passenger was required in the contest in both cars and the smaller-engined but higher horsepower cars used to fail to do with a passenger what they could do to me with a solo driver. Also worked with certain Gen3 competitors.

Or maybe I just got better traction with a person on the right-side of the Mustang. Or some people drive worse with someone in the car watching them.

I was a po' boy who bought the Stang after winning the dough at a casino, modded it with cash from "opinion backed with cash", and stopped all this street crap after I almost got swiped by an idiot with a 5.0 I was 1/2 a car length ahead of but who lost control, veered, and if I hadn't had the experience to expect it and thus had stepped on the brake early so he swung in front of me would be dead/severely messed up.

I also know that the IRS is one of the reasons I jumped to a Camaro, as I had lost my final "informal acceleration test" years ago (which was the race after the one above) when I hit a seam that crossed the road and my rear tires lost grip and I had to watch a f%#@ing WRX Si get a win and my rent while I had to shove in the clutch to keep from wrecking. Yes, I'm an idiot and facing death didn't stop me but that combined with a major financial dent finally sent me to the track to take care of my need for speed.

gearing essentially "moves" the HP graph to the left since the car spends less time in each gear.

[Ravener]

Here's a manual vs manual dig race. I just cant see a stock SS ever overtaking a stock 5.0L that get's the jump. Its just too much to overcome at slower speeds. I'd still love to see some freeway races because it looks almost neck and neck once they get up to high speeds.

I'm not bashing either vehicle as I own a Camaro but appreciate the capabilities and appeal of both. A You-Tube video like this indicates virtually nothing other than the fact there was a camaro and a mustang present and in motion. Folks dump things like this into forums like they're some sort of absolute truths. In realite, it's just amusing entertainment.

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by lil_chef

those numbers dont mean anything without knowing what the baseline numbers are. steeda saw a 40hp difference show up on a dyno just from running in 4th as opposed to 5th gear.

link please?? ive seen variations in dyno numbers when doing it in 4th to 5th, but from my experience usually the 5th gear (or 1:1) shows the highest numbers.

[Dan@showstopper]

I still wouldn't buy it

[lexlueger]

Originally Posted by Dan@showstopper

I still wouldn't buy it

+1

[Zabo]

Hmm, this.. or a '72 Plymouth Satellite Sebring.. or a 74 Hurst Olds Cutlass Royale. Both at a Subaru dealership.

[cb4dude]

Yea, buy one, its a winter car!!!!! HA HA HA HA

[Sax1031]

I really like this one.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by EnvyTerra

^both sides do that just for an fyi... remeber that "stock" ls1 beating a 5.0 and how everyone said "see I told you so" as if the video was stone cold fact?

So if you have a video of two cars racing, it doesn't matter who wins really does it? when either side won't give credit or make an excuse for the loss.
theirfore every video ever made of a mustang and camaro is invalid.

I almost posted that video in response to prove just that...but decided against it to avoid another pissing match.

But...just for a fact check....the ls1 car was stock....he owned both cars and had just bought the 11 GT. I highly doubt he would have rigged the situation in favor of his old car lol. He claimed the traction control was still on, that he was inexperienced with it and that the car was new and not broken in fully as the reason for the loss (which are all valid reasons IMO)....I remember it clearly.

Obviously a stock ls1 car will not beat an 11 GT....but it just goes to show anything can happen on the street and these vids with so many types of variables etc dont mean much...

[BigBlock427]

Originally Posted by syr74

I could. Basic suspension design is, if I had to hazard a guess, about 10% of the handling equation, how well that suspension is setup is the other 90%. Put simply a great live axle setup will absolutely be superior to a mediocre IRS, or even a simply good IRS setup for that matter. Is that what is happening here? I can't really say since there is a meaningful disparity in weight. That said, I do suspect that the Mustang piece is a bit better sorted and that the pony would still win the prize here even if weight were equal.

i would have to fully disagree with you on that. and of course any system can be made better, the tech has only been around since horses where pulling us around in wodden karts...

however there are allot of reason why you would want irs for handling and not have the wheels tied together sharing the same dyn that the oppsit wheel is dealing with. yea you can make it handle but if you had a choice to build a track car i could not see anyone in there right mind opting for a soild rear... just dosnt make sense

and the gt 500 did pull a good g. but a lateral g testing really dosnt prove handling dynamics when it comes to a track. a lateral g test test the car in a circle going one direction. dosnt deal with directional change, side to side, or power transfer under load. saloom times is what you should be looking at and even that isnt the end all or be all of handling dyn.

what makes the gt500 great around a track is the fact that it has the tq to pull it out of the turns and the rubber to lay it down. slow in fast out however are you saying that if the cobra had irs that the time around the track would be slower???

im not hating on the 5.0 or cobra at all. Both are great cars. but we are talking about a stock camaro and stock 5.0, what i was trying to say to the first post was, that its not that the camaro irs sucks or that the the sra in mustang make it handle better. it comes down weight

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by BigBlock427

i would have to fully disagree with you on that. and of course any system can be made better, the tech has only been around since horses where pulling us around in wodden karts...

however there are allot of reason why you would want irs for handling and not have the wheels tied together sharing the same dyn that the oppsit wheel is dealing with. yea you can make it handle but if you had a choice to build a track car i could not see anyone in there right mind opting for a soild rear... just dosnt make sense

and the gt 500 did pull a good g. but a lateral g testing really dosnt prove handling dynamics when it comes to a track. a lateral g test test the car in a circle going one direction. dosnt deal with directional change, side to side, or power transfer under load. saloom times is what you should be looking at and even that isnt the end all or be all of handling dyn.

what makes the gt500 great around a track is the fact that it has the tq to pull it out of the turns and the rubber to lay it down. slow in fast out however are you saying that if the cobra had irs that the time around the track would be slower???

im not hating on the 5.0 or cobra at all. Both are great cars

http://www.leftlanenews.com/2011-for...nds-video.html

IRS does have basic design advantages over SRA just like DOHC does over OHV, but just like the latter comparison, SRA can be built to perform just as well as IRS.

[BigDan]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

I really like this one.

Yeah that looks like a total girl's car.

[Mcnamee]

Originally Posted by BigDan

Your statement is very logical and held true until a few months ago.

The heavy 2011 GT500 (3800lbs) with its solid rear axle will pull more G's (1.01) and is quicker around VIR then a 2010 Corvette Gran Sport which is a true sports car with IRS.

lol watch this

[BigBlock427]

^agreed 100% you can build a great car with or with out irs you could build a very well rounded SRA. but in the case of the stock camaro and the stock 5.0 i think its the weight that is tipping the scales in the mustangs favor. and lets be honest it is easier to build a better handling SRA, then shedding the weight out of a car that really is a shame to gut.

i was just hypothesizing, if a higher hp, irs car with a near 50/50 weight distribution, is being out handled by a sra car with less hp not to mention out breaking it... then it has to be the weight factor.

so im saying if the camaro lost say 300lbs then the car would be a whole different animal. thats just stock to stock once you start modifying them it becomes tit for tat.

not arguing at all that sra can be built to handle but we are talking about the stock cars going at it. its not that the camaro irs sucks, it just comes down to physics allot easier to stop, move, or turn something that is lighter.

great vid!