My KB motor blew up!!

[Total_Perf_Eng]

Sorry, Just saw this..

NO NO NO NO NO. Plasma Moly rings are only good to 10-12psi (safely that is). Have they been run higher? Yes, they have. But even the Plasma Moly ring companies will tell you 10psi.

Hell fire is a very good ring. Its not so much the brand, as it is material. But, brand is also important. On ALL of our forged motors, we ALWAYS use a hardened steel top ring, and a Napier 2nd ring. This is about the most common of all of the higher end engine builders and shops. A couple of the top ring companies are Hell Fire, Total Seal, and Ackerly & Childs. Any of these 3 are an excellent choice. But their not cheap.
A plasma Moly ring set costs a shop about 85.00. Companies like Wiseco pistons actually include them with the pistons.That same ring set with the correct material, and from one of the top companies, is about 250.00. So do not assume they are giving them to you. Physically check.
In the days of shops around the country competing for business, it is easy to cut out costs like this.

Originally Posted by the rich dude

So what are you guys liking for rings these days on a street driven blown application? Hell Fire Rings? Or just your run of the mill plasma moly?

Or how about nice stainless ring?!?

[the rich dude]

Originally Posted by Total_Perf_Eng

Sorry, Just saw this..

NO NO NO NO NO. Plasma Moly rings are only good to 10-12psi (safely that is). Have they been run higher? Yes, they have. But even the Plasma Moly ring companies will tell you 10psi.

Hell fire is a very good ring. Its not so much the brand, as it is material. But, brand is also important. On ALL of our forged motors, we ALWAYS use a hardened steel top ring, and a Napier 2nd ring. This is about the most common of all of the higher end engine builders and shops. A couple of the top ring companies are Hell Fire, Total Seal, and Ackerly & Childs. Any of these 3 are an excellent choice. But their not cheap.
A plasma Moly ring set costs a shop about 85.00. Companies like Wiseco pistons actually include them with the pistons.That same ring set with the correct material, and from one of the top companies, is about 250.00. So do not assume they are giving them to you. Physically check.
In the days of shops around the country competing for business, it is easy to cut out costs like this.

Thanks for the info!!!

[CC Performance]

Yep, Wiseco used to only offer them on special order pistons but have made them standard now. We like to use Wiseco 99.9% of the time.

1.2mm Nitride Steel Top, 1.2mm Napier 2nd, and Nitride 3mm
oil GFX ring packs included for the best seal, reduced friction,

and superior oil control.

• Pressure groove for enhanced ring seal.

[old motorhead]

This might have been mentioned, but be sure and upgrade your fuel system. There are other things besides a bad tune that can lead to engine failure. Boost a pumps fail (ask me how I know), meth systems fail (again, ask me), and fuel pumps get weak (again.....).

I'll eventually be in the same boat as you (currently running stock block 670 rwhp LS3). When the time comes, and it will, I have my eye on an HKE forged 416. Forged pistons, boost friendly rings, forged rods, and a forged stroker crank. With stock LS3 heads, a mild blower cam, 10psi, that setup can make more power than I can ever use (well north of 700rwhp) and will hold up to anything I can throw at it. The short block can be done for around $4K with parts and machine work.

One more little tid bit of food for thought. HKE recently built me a short block for boost. Forged pistons, rods, and stock crank. I took my heads and cam to them and they assembled the long block. I got back an assembled sealed long block, with ARP main studs, clearanced (for double roller timing chain)Mellings oil pump, double roller timing chain, with new TSP correct length push rods. Total ticket was around $3300. That's from one of the best engine builders in the country. I'm lucky they're less than an hour away from my shop. They're not the fastest, but I wasn't on foot waiting on them either. Sometimes, it's good to be a little patient and not settle for less.

[the rich dude]

I worked for an engine shop for about 10 years of my life and built some nice motors including my buddies Pro 5.0 engine. Car has gone a best of a 6.53@211 MPH.

When the time comes for me to do a short block for my car I could A: have my old machine shop do all the machining for me and I'll assemble it, or B: get a shop like HKE to build one up wich would probably be quicker as my old shop is usually really backed up!!

My question is for those that have delt with HKE, how is there attention to detials? Also how is there cylinder finish?? You wouldn't believe how many hone jobs I've seen from so called "high end race shops" where the cylinders were soooo glazed they were almost blue!!! You'd be surprised how tough it is to find a shop that actually knows how to not only hone properly so you get a nice round cylinder, but how to maintain there shoes and use the right amount of pressure so your cylinders AREN'T GLAZED!!!!
Any feed back would be greatly appreciated.... I'll probably have a chat with Darin Morgan as well as I know he's on the up and up on whats going on

[Indpowr]

Originally Posted by Supercharged SS

Couldn't agree more!! Now that it's been a yr since these cars have been blown I'd bet that there will be more and more total failures.

+1
I always stated that people here were trying to top dyno numbers and pushing and pushing the limits. I saw it before at the Corvette forum.

I think the OP has a great attitude but should be a warning to those that want to mod with High HP but do not want to spend the cash for a new motor.

[old motorhead]

Originally Posted by the rich dude

I worked for an engine shop for about 10 years of my life and built some nice motors including my buddies Pro 5.0 engine. Car has gone a best of a 6.53@211 MPH.

When the time comes for me to do a short block for my car I could A: have my old machine shop do all the machining for me and I'll assemble it, or B: get a shop like HKE to build one up wich would probably be quicker as my old shop is usually really backed up!!

My question is for those that have delt with HKE, how is there attention to detials? Also how is there cylinder finish?? You wouldn't believe how many hone jobs I've seen from so called "high end race shops" where the cylinders were soooo glazed they were almost blue!!! You'd be surprised how tough it is to find a shop that actually knows how to not only hone properly so you get a nice round cylinder, but how to maintain there shoes and use the right amount of pressure so your cylinders AREN'T GLAZED!!!!
Any feed back would be greatly appreciated.... I'll probably have a chat with Darin Morgan as well as I know he's on the up and up on whats going on

Cylinder wall finish has changed from a few years ago. They used to leave the cyl walls extremely rough. The goal was for the cyl walls and the piston rings to "wear" in together. Enter synthetic motor oils. They tried the same rough finish, but the synthetic lubes didn't allow enough "wear" for the rings and cyl walls to wear in together. Then, they tried to recommend dino oils for the break in, and then synthetic oils after the first oil change. Synthetic oils too quick and the rings never seated. Now, most use a pretty smooth cy wall finish and recommend synthetic oil from the get go. Better system now and results are more consistant. I'm pretty sure HKE (or any quality shop) is going to get you a set of rings and cylinder walls that will play nice together with the lubes they recommend.

Just a note for those that change their synthetic oils every 3K miles. Those oils are a quantum leap over what's been avialable earlier. What a huge waste of time and money. Double or triple those motor oil change intervals. Use the money you save for something way more important......beer

[Z_Rocks]

Originally Posted by old motorhead

Cylinder wall finish has changed from a few years ago. They used to leave the cyl walls extremely rough. The goal was for the cyl walls and the piston rings to "wear" in together. Enter synthetic motor oils. They tried the same rough finish, but the synthetic lubes didn't allow enough "wear" for the rings and cyl walls to wear in together. Then, they tried to recommend dino oils for the break in, and then synthetic oils after the first oil change. Synthetic oils too quick and the rings never seated. Now, most use a pretty smooth cy wall finish and recommend synthetic oil from the get go. Better system now and results are more consistant. I'm pretty sure HKE (or any quality shop) is going to get you a set of rings and cylinder walls that will play nice together with the lubes they recommend.

Rodney, I don't mean to hijack the thread, but a question for you. There are many engine builders right in US, what has made HKE to have a solid reputation? Why aren't more HKEs around?

[2SSRS@Gen5diy]

I do a lot of highway driving and go 10K till the next oil change, i had a 1996 impala with a LT1 in it, the trans let go and the motor is still going with almost 280K on it, I sold it with 262K and the guy that got it from me works for me now and then, My 2004 GMC denali LX has 245k on it, runs good and the trans went out but not the motor.

[old motorhead]

Originally Posted by Z_Rocks

Rodney, I don't mean to hijack the thread, but a question for you. There are many engine builders right in US, what has made HKE to have a solid reputation? Why aren't more HKEs around?

If you get a chance to talk to Erik, you'll understand. He lives and breathes this stuff. Not for a minute saying you can't get good results from your local machine shop. He's just, in my opinion, the best bang for the buck out there. If you go to his shop, you'll see how unpretentious and down to earth the whole operation is. It's very clean, but very understated. No corvette/camaro tax. I feel like I get the same attention to detail as the high end big boy builds, that he made his reputation on. He builds stuff that I can only dream of. Same shop, same people, same attention to getting the most for your $.

If he was located in NY, Chicago, or LA, I probably couldn't afford him..

[Z_Rocks]

Originally Posted by old motorhead

If you get a chance to talk to Erik, you'll understand. He lives and breathes this stuff. Not for a minute saying you can't get good results from your local machine shop. He's just, in my opinion, the best bang for the buck out there. If you go to his shop, you'll see how unpretentious and down to earth the whole operation is. It's very clean, but very understated. No corvette/camaro tax. I feel like I get the same attention to detail as the high end big boy builds, that he made his reputation on. He builds stuff that I can only dream of. Same shop, same people, same attention to getting the most for your $.

If he was located in NY, Chicago, or LA, I probably couldn't afford him..

Thanks!

[xx_ED_xx]

Awesome another plus to me moving to Texas

[CC Performance]

Originally Posted by Z_Rocks

Rodney, I don't mean to hijack the thread, but a question for you. There are many engine builders right in US, what has made HKE to have a solid reputation? Why aren't more HKEs around?

Its the owner himself. Not just his technical expertise but his pride. He wont allow a bad engine to be built with his name on it. We look at every application and built to suite. Some others don't do this or take the time we take to machine and line hone. The valve-train setup and cam lobes.
Time is money. The more time you spend the more money you have to charge. If you want to compete with lower priced engine that sell quicker due to their price you have to spend less money or time on an engine.


This is why we can offer a 416 for 3675 and a 457 for 15k... the time spent on the 457 is astronomical compared to the 416.. plus the crank is more money but its the time spent on the building the engine that matters more. It gets mocked up several times before its finally assembled.


His approach to the engine and vehicle as a whole. The guy is one smart cookie, better than a lot of the rest. There are those out there who lead the way in every profession. HKE is that person in the LSx engine world right now.

The difference between a 402 and a 403 will give you a big clue.

The 402 is a stock bore and the 403 has been trued up .005

We are getting ready to release some new technology as well.

Big Hp head and cam setups with amazing street drivability.
725 rwhp on 91 octane pump gas by 6500 rpms n/a (new killer engine we're releasing)

There are other HKE's out there Reher Morrisson is one of them, check out their pricing.

[Z_Rocks]

Originally Posted by CC Performance

Its the owner himself. Not just his technical expertise but his pride. He wont allow a bad engine to be built with his name on it. We look at every application and built to suite. Some others don't do this or take the time we take to machine and line hone. The valve-train setup and cam lobes.
Time is money. The more time you spend the more money you have to charge. If you want to compete with lower priced engine that sell quicker due to their price you have to spend less money or time on an engine.


This is why we can offer a 416 for 3675 and a 457 for 15k... the time spent on the 457 is astronomical compared to the 416.. plus the crank is more money but its the time spent on the building the engine that matters more. It gets mocked up several times before its finally assembled.


His approach to the engine and vehicle as a whole. The guy is one smart cookie, better than a lot of the rest. There are those out there who lead the way in every profession. HKE is that person in the LSx engine world right now.

The difference between a 402 and a 403 will give you a big clue.

The 402 is a stock bore and the 403 has been trued up .005

We are getting ready to release some new technology as well.

Big Hp head and cam setups with amazing street drivability.
725 rwhp on 91 octane pump gas by 6500 rpms n/a (new killer engine we're releasing)

There are other HKE's out there Reher Morrisson is one of them, check out their pricing.

Thank you very much for taking the time and educating me. I do have a great appreciation for quality work. In my line of work, that is my priority, although not appreciated by everyone :-)

I also noticed on your website to have close ties with HKE and selling their products. Can you also tell me, where CC Performance come into the picture between customer and HKE?

Thank you again!