My LLT engine is blown on my 2LT, any recommendations?

[HDDAN]

Originally Posted by mikeSS

you payed 34k for a 2lt?

He lives in Canada. That is probably 34,000.00 Loonies not U$ dollars.

[Edge.128]

Originally Posted by HDDAN

He lives in Canada. That is probably 34,000.00 Loonies not U$ dollars.

for a 2LT? more like 36,000+ then taxes on top of that. gets close to $40,000 for a 2LT with some options all in.

[Camarodriver]

Caverman, thrillz and everyone, thank you for you comments and support! You have all given me great ideas!

A quick update, its a little chilly this morning, arounD 12 Celcius and the car started reeeealy badly today, sputtering, chugging, idling very rough and then it dies on me! I had to restart it, then it did re- start, but it did so rough and chugging... I had to give it some gas to keep it running, that was odd, just like my old 350 small block in my 75 Camaro of old...now THAT I don't expect from such an engine, I will not be staying with this car.

I will advise the deanship, bring it back as soon as possible and I will communicate this to my GM contact to inform. I then have to figure out what deal can be had for an SS. Anyone want to buy some 18" Heritage specials with winter tires? *SIGH*

eB

Edit, it did this when I had to leave late in the day, stalling dead three times sputtering to a horrible stall, shaking the whole car, sputtering and the only way to get moving was to keep the gas pressed, and finally it ran, poorly and the check engine light came on... It's not driving great at all.... It's gotta go...

[Camarodriver]

Cross posted from the V6 thread:

I have to trade in my 2010 Camaro for a 2011 and I will now lose money big time.

Mine is now broken and I need a new one. I tried to start my current Camaro today and it not only started like it's recent sluggish and slow turning over, but it turned over extremely rough and violently, stalling and not re-starting easily. It rocked the car left and right with the hood shifting back and forth before stalling hard with loud metallic sounds and thrashing about. I moved it one parking spot over and left it there all day, taking my wife's car instead.

I did not drive the Camaro all day as I had meetings that I could not be late for but I wanted to see if it still ran well at so tonight, I had a parent-teacher meeting for one of my kids. I needed the Camaro to get me 5 KM’s and I figured it could have settled itself during the day. I started it up, and once again, it turned over very violently, shaking the car back and forth trying to start but it seemed to be running on only ½ the cylinders and after about 20 seconds it stalled hard. Hoping it would correct itself after a short rest, I started it a second time and once again it violently shuddered, trying to start but stalling again very hard. At this point my car had drifted, moving slightly into the street (I park on a hill) and I HAD to get this car moved back into a better position so that I could take my wife’s car to this appointment. I started it a third time with the same violent shaking and shuddering but this time I gave it a little gas and it started to pull me out of the parking and onto the boulevard, but it was not “happy” as it was not running on all cylinders and it was sounding bad and running rough. The check engine light came on and I pulled over to the side of the road to a safe position, letting it settle down to idle for a minute.

It seemed to run smoothly after a minute or so, the check engine light stayed on and I was now late so I drove off to the school and it made it there OK without further incident. When I came out of the meeting, it started up this time without all the violence, but it did indeed “chug” slowly over, seeming to be “tight” but it ran relatively smoothly once it started up. When I parked it in a safe place on the inside of my parking, I stopped the engine and re-started it again, this time without any issue. Very odd, very unreliable and very unpredictable.

I am in active talks with my dealer and a GM representative to make this situation right. I want to trade in my 2LT to a 2SS but I am being low-balled by the dealer on my trade in. I hear the dealer talking that he isn't going to give me much more than $22,000 CDN for my car (plus reduced tax) on a car I bought last December for $34,000. I dropped over $12,000 CDN in cash and trade in value all to lose it on this trade 9 months later and 9 car payments of almost $600. I feel terrible and ripped off. I lose the use of my 18" Heritage winter wheels and tires, gotta buy a different set and lose money there. I lose on allmost all the dealer extras I dropped onto this car, with my Leather treatment, Paint and oil treatment and my anti-theft numbering of my car parts, the OEM mud guards that cost me $700 at full pop canadian ripoff-inflated prices. The only thing that I can recover is the floor mats and trunk mat that I had the pleasure of spending a whopping $489CDN for, because that, I can take and plop into my new Camaro.

You may wonder why I would pay such outrageous prices for these accessories, but that's the price for being Canadian and buying cars and car parts up here. The irony is that the Camaro is MADE in Canada to begin with! I understood the huge price differences when our dollar was at $1.45 US but it's almost at par people, for quite some time now so let's get things adjusted to reality! Everytime I ask a dealer WHY are our prices so out of whack with the US prices, it's all vague and "just the way it is" kinda rhetoric and it just doesn't add up. I just know that the suppliers, manufacturers and dealers all take a little "more" than thier American counterparts as "part of the deal" for everyone just being quiet about it. It cannot be justified on market share and customer ratios and all that. Our country buys alot of cars too, you know!

Our Canadaian dollar today is trading at:

On 16 Sep 2010, 1.00 Canadian dollar(s) = 0.97 U.S. dollar(s), at an exchange rate of 0.9733

My new Camaro 2SS should not cost me $50,000+, I want to pay for it in US dollars! Will you sell it to me in US dollars? Why is this the way it is? Does anyone have any idea why Canadian Camaros cost more in the country where they are made?!

I am not looking forward to re-negotiating a new Camaro, but I have no choice as it's in my near future!

eB

[CaliMattRS]

Under no circumstances should you trade that car in for a loss! They need to make your current vehicle 100%, whether that means a new engine or not. Once you are at 100%, then sell your camaro to a third party. You may take a loss, but nit 1/3 the overall value!!!!

Best case scenario for the dealer and gm is for you to trade in for SS, and take a $12k hit, don't let them win!

Time to start kicking some ass. Take a video camera with you every ti e you start your car for evidence, and drive the shit out if it if possible. Break it good this time!

Good luck man, everyone here is rooting for you and feels your pain!

[Sc0rPs]

Yup, we're getting a little ripped off in Canada. Mine was just under 39k sticker!

Anyways, you could try to sell the car privately?

[Camarodriver]

If I sell my car privately, I lose the tax against the new car.... Dealer trades have that advantage...


eB

Originally Posted by Sc0rPs

Yup, we're getting a little ripped off in Canada. Mine was just under 39k sticker!

Anyways, you could try to sell the car privately?

[h2oplay]

before taking ANY loss, why don't you keep taking it in until you reach the lemon law limits, you can't be far from that. Or is that not an option in canada?

[camarorick]

Originally Posted by CaliMattRS

Under no circumstances should you trade that car in for a loss! They need to make your current vehicle 100%, whether that means a new engine or not. Once you are at 100%, then sell your camaro to a third party. You may take a loss, but nit 1/3 the overall value!!!!

Best case scenario for the dealer and gm is for you to trade in for SS, and take a $12k hit, don't let them win!

Time to start kicking some ass. Take a video camera with you every ti e you start your car for evidence, and drive the shit out if it if possible. Break it good this time!

Good luck man, everyone here is rooting for you and feels your pain!

+1 !!!

Eric, you're now talking about spending $32,000 to upgrade to a "SS".... Does not make sense !!

Go to another dealer, explain the situation, and get the car fixed. They should supply you with a loaner car for the duration of the repair ( I left my car for one night, and the supplied me with a BIG A$$ S.U.V. to use over night ).

Sell afterwords, and then buy a second hand one from the States ( needs to be 6 months old, and 12,000km before warranty is available up here ). It's actually very easy to do, and I wouldn't hesitate for a second to do it that way now. You also don't really need to worry about the age of the car, if you find something with less mileage, and younger, the warranty will kick in once the 6month/12,000km is met ).

Seriously, come meet us tonight in Laval, we can talk about it !!

Rick

[Camarodriver]

Rick, I will try to make it up there tonight to see you all again, I have been really busy lately, but need some Camaro-buddies support! :/ I will look into the lemon laws here as this is bordering on ridiculous. I will start filming eachbstartup to have evidence. I am just hoping blindly that GM will recognize this travesty and just gift me my full money back and I will buy an SS like I should have to begin with. I have had 5 other small blocks in my automotive life and none of them ever gave me issues like this.

Cya soon,

eB

Originally Posted by camarorick

+1 !!!

Eric, you're now talking about spending $32,000 to upgrade to a "SS".... Does not make sense !!

Go to another dealer, explain the situation, and get the car fixed. They should supply you with a loaner car for the duration of the repair ( I left my car for one night, and the supplied me with a BIG A$$ S.U.V. to use over night ).

Sell afterwords, and then buy a second hand one from the States ( needs to be 6 months old, and 12,000km before warranty is available up here ). It's actually very easy to do, and I wouldn't hesitate for a second to do it that way now. You also don't really need to worry about the age of the car, if you find something with less mileage, and younger, the warranty will kick in once the 6month/12,000km is met ).

Seriously, come meet us tonight in Laval, we can talk about it !!

Rick

[Camarodriver]

The APA or CAMVAP will work with a consumer, but the setup here is not in favor off the consumer... check it out:

http://www.apa.ca/template.asp?DocID=156

bad. yuck. hoping GM will help me out...

eB

Originally Posted by h2oplay

before taking ANY loss, why don't you keep taking it in until you reach the lemon law limits, you can't be far from that. Or is that not an option in canada?

[Camarodriver]

Cross posted from the V6 forums, I just know you V8'ers don't pay attention to those threads!

Things will work out I hope!

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Homestar, TJ91 and Rarebird, thanks for all your comments I really appreciate them! It's been a bad situation but with all this support I don't feel so alone.

I met with my Canadian Camaro buddies last night at one of our meets and had alot more support and a few good ideas. Many shared thier stories with me and how things turned out when they had similar problems and what they did to get resolutions and that will make a difference in all this for me. I am a little pis*ed that I have not been able to catch the hard starting/stalling on video as it has now happened 4 times, but I have a charged digital camera in the car and now film ever startup so I will hopefully catch it again and have it as proof.

It's very strange a problem as when it's happening it sounds terrible like it's not running on all cylinders and it's mechanically rough as hell. Then it corrects itself and starts up fine for many startups, some are sluggish and slow but the car drives fine. Then one of those hard startups happen, the check engine light goes on but stays on for a day or so and goes out on it's own.

I just started it up this morning, to move it one parking spot and it started up fine and sounded great. It did startup sluggishly a little but it's running fine. I just wonder if it's a mechanical issue or is the computer and/or sensors just not all on right and the wrong information is being processed in the CPU and causing it to run poorly electrically. If there was a mechanical problem, I assume that it wouldn't run smoothly at all as it does now 80% of the time, right?

We will see what the dealer finds as I will be dropping off the car first thing Monday morning. I need a loaner now for sure. I was going to drop it off Friday, but they told me it made no difference as they close service early on Fridays. I will try to catch this hard startup on video and post it for all of you to see, I would really like your opinions on what you think is going on in that engine. I am driving it normally, trying to see if it can remain reliable or not. Some other posters have recommended that I try to "blow" the engine so they have no choice but to flip the engine and that is frankly, preposterous to consider. Not only is it just plain wrong to do, but it is wasteful beyond all measure to all parties involved. If someone ever did that, they risk being caught many ways. Modern car computers retain all kinds of information and I am sure that if you were to try to do just that it would be recorded in the computer and this would void any warrantee and frankly, any good will, with GM. Then GM wouldn't be able to see why this car is running poorly in the first place and then the next guy that gets a similar problem with an LLT V6 will be as unlucky as I have been without GM being able to prevent this issue in the first place. It's also dangerous because who knows what would happen if parts started "flying", people could get hurt.

So please, anyone that is thinking of posting any future comments on willfully blowing up this engine, please refrain from suggesting this as it doesn't help my case and it's just plain evil. I am posting the ongoing progress of this issue for the betterment of the whole C5 community and for the support I am receiving from everyone. It's important to CLEARLY show GM and the entire automotive world that social media can have a major impact on how the OEM's and consumers can create a dialog that is constructive and powerful so that everyone is on their best behaviour! Gone are the days of the single voice of a single consumer, there is power in numbers and this forum has been nothing but positive for me, before and after my Camaro purchase.

Thanks to the moderators, thanks to all of you for your kind words and ideas. I will reciprocate by keeping you all informed in the most unbiased way I can. I have a good feeling that GM will step up to the plate on this one and do the right thing! If they change the engine, I will gladly keep this car as I just love it through and through. If they would rather trade it in, I will get an SS and pay for the difference. I just hope for a fair trade in. Also, thanks to Mr. Scott Settlemire for giving me his advice and recent devine intervention, without his help I would be at thhe mercy of the dealer alone, GM having given thier final verdict of repair, repair repair. The Fbodfather is now my automotive patron saint! I just hope one day he doesn't come asking for a "favor" that I cannot refuse! (ok, ok, I just had to write that! His is a "godfather" after all, no?

More news real soon!

eB
__________________
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition by the mediocre mind.... Al E

2010 Summit White 2LT Camaro:
Ordered August 14th,2009
Allocation October 1st, 2009
Set for production Monday November 23rd, 2009
(Defective engine installed in great car this week)
Shipped by truck Monday November 30th, 2009
Dealer received Wednesday 2nd December, 2009
Picked up by ME, Friday 4th December, 2009
Happy Forever after...December 5th
EDIT:
actually happy until August 2010 when my bearing spun and engine blew. The fairy tale has no happy ending...yet.

[Camarodriver]

I got it filmed! I have been starting up the digital video cam every time I start it up and I filmed a short misfiring, sluggish start and now I just left with the family to go shopping and I filmed the startup without incident BUUUT when I came to drive away it started to misfire, so I pulled over with my hazards on and quickly popped the hood and as soon as I had popped the hood it started to run smoothly. Dang!

It ran smoothly to the mall but when I replayed the vid you clearly heard the sputtering engine, my tach bobbing up and down and the terrible sounds of an engine running on half it's cylinders. My whole family heard it, in fact, my daughter was then scared to be in the Camaro...

I will post it later tonight to let you all hear it.

eB

[Camarodriver]

Video of the stalling and sluggish startups

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Well, I keep missing the sluggish starts with my video camera, but here are two vids that I did manage to catch. tell me what you think, please. Mostly, it starts just fine but now and then it starts up sluggishly, but does correct itself and then it runs fine usually. Sometimes it starts ok but then as you are driving, it starts running really rough and I have to pull over like in this longer vid.

I hopped out of the car just in time for it to correct itself and then it ran fine for the rest of the day. Well this vid is earlier today, we will see if it happens again today. This car has now started super rough and stalled at least 6 times and it started sluggishly easily over 10 times in the space of a week. it also stalled at least twice while I was driving as it did today, causing once again the check engine light to go on. Thats the third time in 8 days. It's going to the dealship tomorrow.

eB