2011 SS M6 versus 2011 M3

[justa25thTA]

Originally Posted by calbert1999

Break in? LOL
So, I have to drive the car for how long before it's broken in to beat the M3? 1, 2, 3, 4..... 6 months or 1yr.? Will that break-in period reduce the weight of the SS? Will it resolve the shitty GM shifting mechanism? Will it account for the crappy un-forged internals which will only allow me to rev to 5-6k before something breaks? Or can't take 2-5psi. of boost?
Tell me more, so I know next time I purchase a GM sports car what I have to do to beat the competition?
What I've learned about the SS is it's a great "moderately" decent sports car, but when you want to put the pedal to the metal like you could with a Camaro back in the day it falls way short of it's predecessors, and that's due to all the cost saving measures of using parts that meet specs. with very littler tolerance for improvements.
So, you keep breaking in your SS the next time you're up against a vehicle that has a properly built engine, I'll just do what's necessary to get my car to the level I want so I can have some safe, reliable enjoyment and not have to worry that when I take a corner, or rev my engine too hard something is going to break-in.
The LS3 is a good engine block and heads, but at the end of the day, if you don't build the engine properly with good solid internals (not hollow garbage to penny pinch), it will hold up to anything you throw at it. Unfortunately, the european automakers have figured out how to do this and charge extra for it while domestic automakers can't seem to get their heads wrapped around the value proposition of using better parts and convincing consumers their products will stand the test of time. So, when a question is asked will an M3 take an SS, those are the real deciding factors, not whether or not the engine has been broken in or not.
But, yes driver skill always plays a role, and I doubt the other guy was any better or worse than I was at shifting gears.

Did you even test drive a Camaro before you bought one?

I just looked up the price for a M3 coupe, $53k? Geez it ought to take out an SS.

[calbert1999]

Originally Posted by justa25thTA

Did you even test drive a Camaro before you bought one?

Are you suggesting I test drive every vehicle and do analysis on all of the eninge builds? What's you point? Please, elaborate.

[justa25thTA]

Originally Posted by calbert1999

Are you suggesting I test drive every vehicle and do analysis on all of the eninge builds? What's you point? Please, elaborate.

One of your (many) complaints was weight and shifting. Were you not aware of these before purchase?

[calbert1999]

Originally Posted by MatchbookSS

You do realize that Camaro's from "back in the day" were either no faster, or a good deal slower than the current SS, right?

And you do realize, that the general consensus on this board and elsewhere, is that the LS3/L99 picks up power with a proper break in, right?

And you do realize that pushing boost into "a crappy, un-forged" engine, that isn't designed for it doesn't make it "crappy", right?

Personally, it sounds like you're just displacing blame, just like most people who dump huge amounts of money into mods that the car wasn't originally designed for, and then want to lay the blame of any sort of mechanical failure at the manufacturer's feet, rather than at their own, their tuners, or the aftermarket's... And by the by, if you raced an standard, stock M3, and you were driving a M6 SS, and you lost by bus lengths, it's probably due to the fact that a) he got the jump on you if he was behind you, or b), you're driving skill sucks. Or a combination of both. Especially if this was prior to the release of the 2011+ M3's.

Not at all. At the end of the day I have to pay for it so you can't suggest I'm blaming anyone, blame is something people do when they don't take responsibillity for their actions. Right?
My point is; And I was working on my other post; Is that it would have been pretty easy to forge the LS3 as they did with an LS9. Right? This is always the argument with Mustang owners, and their right on when they say their engines are built to withstand a beating because they have the forged internals.
So, regardless of what work you do to your engine it's only as good as the framework it's built on. Right? So, boosting an engine that's not forged is not a good idea regardless of how much boost you use. Right? You just do it, and hope for the best and try to tune as safe as you can. Right?
In my case I had planned to forge it anyway just not right now. So, expectation was it would last at least until the winter. So, no one to blame just saying for a few extra $$$ would have been nice if the internals were forged already. No? Would save a lot of people from having to do it for much more than they would have paid out of pocket when the bought the vehicle. Right? It's just common sense that's all. Go look up LS3 and LS9 and you'll now what I'm talking about.

Originally Posted by justa25thTA

One of your (many) complaints was weight and shifting. Were you not aware of these before purchase?

Unfortunately, it's not possible to know all of the issues until you actuall have the vehicle for a while and then once you encounter them you start doing research to see if it's just yours or if others have the same issues / expectations and either do something about it or settle. It's really a no win situation until you do what you want to get what you originally wanted. So, that's what I'm doing. Hopefully, in newer versions of the vehicle, consumers will not have to do the same thing.

[LEADfoot927]

Originally Posted by MatchbookSS

You do realize that Camaro's from "back in the day" were either no faster, or a good deal slower than the current SS, right?

Originally Posted by MatchbookSS

And you do realize, that the general consensus on this board and elsewhere, is that the LS3/L99 picks up power with a proper break in, right?
And you do realize that pushing boost into "a crappy, un-forged" engine, that isn't designed for it doesn't make it "crappy", right?
Personally, it sounds like you're just displacing blame, just like most people who dump huge amounts of money into mods that the car wasn't originally designed for, and then want to lay the blame of any sort of mechanical failure at the manufacturer's feet, rather than at their own, their tuners, or the aftermarket's... And by the by, if you raced an standard, stock M3, and you were driving a M6 SS, and you lost by bus lengths, it's probably due to the fact that a) he got the jump on you if he was behind you, or b), you're driving skill sucks. Or a combination of both. Especially if this was prior to the release of the 2011+ M3's.

That’s what I have been trying to explain. When comparing manual to manual, and both cars having close to the same power to weight ratio, if you get beat by bus lengths you need to get driving lessons.

Originally Posted by MatchbookSS

Lol. Do you guys all, like, not know how to read? No one is arguing about the competition difference between a new auto DCT M3 and a M6 SS. Jesus. It's like trying to deal with Reading Rainbow kids in here. Lol.

Originally Posted by MatchbookSS

Does anyone actually read the thread?

I agree, Its seems some people’s reading skills are as bad as their driving skill.

[calbert1999]

Originally Posted by justa25thTA

One of your (many) complaints was weight and shifting. Were you not aware of these before purchase?

These are facts not complaints. I've yet to hear of a BMW that doesn't shift like butter.
So, when someone asks if an SS can take an M3 I'm simply pointing out the reasons why I know it can't (shifting, weight, engine internal weaknesses that won't allow for higher RPM's.).
Unlike some people who don't want to admit to certain constraints (after purchasing an SS), although I really like the Camaro there are many areas where it can be improved.

Originally Posted by REEFBLUE93

Oh wow, pretty much your whole post is just riddled with FAIL. If you're blowing motors with 2-5 psi, your tuner is shittier than any LS3 may ever be. GM has a the motor you're thinking of, it comes in the ZR1 and ZL1 but you could probably find a tuner to blow those up for you as well...

I implore you to do some reasearch on the ZR1 motor it's called an LS9. Do you know what an LS9 is? You'll be surprised when you find out, I could give you the answer but I'll leave it up to you to do the research. Trust me you'll take back your . And, wonder why it's not in the 2010 Camaro "SS".
Crappy is crappy whoever makes it, can't blame a tuner that didn't make the hollow parts can ya'? Check it out lots of folks getting boosted vehicle from some of the top performance instalers and "some" go bad real fast, and some don't, it's the luck of the draw. Like I said before you can pay all kinds and get a supercharger and tune to make 500hp. so you don't blow your crappy engine internals but then what's the point? 430hp to 500hp. for the cost and labour of an SC. Might as well keep the money and put it in an RRSP or something (which is always a better idea anyway).
The motor I'm thinking of is an LSX block which can be bored into whatever you want it to be, it's steel, and the parts I'll use will be forged steel, and nothing will be "hollow", it will accept as much boost as my little blower will throw at it and at that point you can call the engine whatever you want. Go check out the LSX too while your at it. I wouldn't mind if you get back to me and let me know what you find out.

[justa25thTA]

My point was that you could have test driven the car extensively before buying. If the weight was a problem, or the transmission didn't shift the way you like, buy something else. And again, you can't discount the difference in price between the two vehicles.

[REEFBLUE93]

Originally Posted by calbert1999

These are facts not complaints. I've yet to hear of a BMW that doesn't shift like butter.
So, when someone asks if an SS can take an M3 I'm simply pointing out the reasons why I know it can't (shifting, weight, engine internal weaknesses that won't allow for higher RPM's.).
Unlike some people who don't want to admit to certain constraints (after purchasing an SS), although I really like the Camaro there are many areas where it can be improved.


I implore you to do some reasearch on the ZR1 motor it's called an LS9. Do you know what an LS9 is? You'll be surprised when you find out, I could give you the answer but I'll leave it up to you to do the research. Trust me you'll take back your . And, wonder why it's not in the 2010 Camaro "SS".
Crappy is crappy whoever makes it, can't blame a tuner that didn't make the hollow parts can ya'? Check it out lots of folks getting boosted vehicle from some of the top performance instalers and "some" go bad real fast, and some don't, it's the luck of the draw. Like I said before you can pay all kinds and get a supercharger and tune to make 500hp. so you don't blow your crappy engine internals but then what's the point? 430hp to 500hp. for the cost and labour of an SC. Might as well keep the money and put it in an RRSP or something (which is always a better idea anyway).
The motor I'm thinking of is an LSX block which can be bored into whatever you want it to be, it's steel, and the parts I'll use will be forged steel, and nothing will be "hollow", it will accept as much boost as my little blower will throw at it and at that point you can call the engine whatever you want. Go check out the LSX too while your at it. I wouldn't mind if you get back to me and let me know what you find out.

One more time and then I will let common sense give way to whatever it is that you use to decipher what's really causing you issues in your life:

Thanks for letting me know what motor is in the ZR1. An LS9 has this cute little package called "forged rotating assembly". Your Camaro didn't come with it so you put a blower on that and took it to some incompetent meathead for a tune. I had a 93 Mustang with a stock long block running the same blower I have on my current car. It made 373rwhp and I NEVER had an issue with it. It was tuned by Mike Murillo in San Antonio and he's pretty damn good. Why didn't they put the LS9 in the SS you asked. Well then GM would have to put a JATO rocket in the ZR1 Vette...

You already admitted you don't research a new car prior to purchasing it. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you probably use the same methodology when buying mods and choosing someone to install/tune on your new Camaro SS... I feel bad for you man. Good luck with that new motor, tell your tuner it's not bullet proof either though.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by REEFBLUE93

One more time and then I will let common sense give way to whatever it is that you use to decipher what's really causing you issues in your life

extra chromosome?

[28.]

I love the 3 series, but for the money I'd still take a 330I just for the fact that performance wise it's not that far of the M3. Not for the price difference anyway. I also know that the 330I with just a tune is a totally different beast. As much as 4/10ths of a second quicker if not more simply with a tune.

[28.]

Originally Posted by REEFBLUE93

One more time and then I will let common sense give way to whatever it is that you use to decipher what's really causing you issues in your life:

Thanks for letting me know what motor is in the ZR1. An LS9 has this cute little package called "forged rotating assembly". Your Camaro didn't come with it so you put a blower on that and took it to some incompetent meathead for a tune. I had a 93 Mustang with a stock long block running the same blower I have on my current car. It made 373rwhp and I NEVER had an issue with it. It was tuned by Mike Murillo in San Antonio and he's pretty damn good. Why didn't they put the LS9 in the SS you asked. Well then GM would have to put a JATO rocket in the ZR1 Vette...

You already admitted you don't research a new car prior to purchasing it. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you probably use the same methodology when buying mods and choosing someone to install/tune on your new Camaro SS... I feel bad for you man. Good luck with that new motor, tell your tuner it's not bullet proof either though.

Reef sometimes you just have to give up.. I already would have..lol..

[LEADfoot927]

Originally Posted by 28.

I love the 3 series, but for the money I'd still take a 330I just for the fact that performance wise it's not that far of the M3. Not for the price difference anyway. I also know that the 330I with just a tune is a totally different beast. As much as 4/10ths of a second quicker if not more simply with a tune.

Are you refering to a 335i? A 330i is not that impressive.

[calbert1999]

Originally Posted by justa25thTA

My point was that you could have test driven the car extensively before buying. If the weight was a problem, or the transmission didn't shift the way you like, buy something else. And again, you can't discount the difference in price between the two vehicles.

Yes of course. However, keep in mind the 2010 SS unlike a lot of other vehicles at the time was a new product in the marketplace, it was very difficult to find one at a dealership to test drive (especially an M6 SS), and there was very little information available too. So, yes of course I did what research I could and test drove it like anyone else. It's only until you have extensive driving experience with the vehicle you learn more about it just like anything else.

Originally Posted by REEFBLUE93

One more time and then I will let common sense give way to whatever it is that you use to decipher what's really causing you issues in your life:

Thanks for letting me know what motor is in the ZR1. An LS9 has this cute little package called "forged rotating assembly". Your Camaro didn't come with it so you put a blower on that and took it to some incompetent meathead for a tune. I had a 93 Mustang with a stock long block running the same blower I have on my current car. It made 373rwhp and I NEVER had an issue with it. It was tuned by Mike Murillo in San Antonio and he's pretty damn good. Why didn't they put the LS9 in the SS you asked. Well then GM would have to put a JATO rocket in the ZR1 Vette...

You already admitted you don't research a new car prior to purchasing it. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you probably use the same methodology when buying mods and choosing someone to install/tune on your new Camaro SS... I feel bad for you man. Good luck with that new motor, tell your tuner it's not bullet proof either though.

No worries man, not here to argue with you to see who's more witty. Personally, I don't care what you think and I don't need your pity, I had planned to forge and stroke the engine anyway so this is simply a minor setback for me. You can go twist someone elses words, or insult other people you don't know to prove how intelligent you are (or lack of), I don't really care one way or the other.
If you go back and read my thread, I don't blame anyone for anything I was simply responding to the OP's question based on my experience as a SS owner.
In my personal experience with the SS I believe the LS3 with forged internals would have been that much better of an engine on an SS (like on a vette), and in that case may have been a better match to take an M3 and win. I don't believe like you do that forging internal on an LS3 engine necessarily means anything about competing with a Vette from a automaker perspective. If you don't agree, that's fine you are entitled to your opinion for whatever reason. I still have a right to have mine too. Right? And, we're both saying the same thing regarding boost on an engine not built for boost so not sure where the argument is here. As for blown engines there are numerous reasons why that could happen, tune, parts, gas, temps, etc... there is a case on here just like mine were someone had a valve bend and bust their piston, and guess what? Totally stock engine. Are you now going to blame the GM canned tune and call the tuner an bonehead? Could it have simply been a defective part? So, before you make asusmptions about people you don't know anything about try to consider the other many factors for why a valve could bend and damage an engine before you're so quick to insult people you don't know.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by 28.

Reef sometimes you just have to give up.. I already would have..lol..

That guy is hopeless.