Side Airbag deployment with No accident

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by oldfriend

Ford and GM also specifically doesn't say .....don't take the car to the lake .....
Should we assume that's okay to do so ?
Or they also don't say that you ,,,can't make the car jump across Grand Canion .... Does it make them responsible if someone tries it and fail ?

I'm taking mine mudbogging this afternoon...

[danvillekidd]

What's to say that the sensors or accelerometers are reading correctly? There are a lot of people on here who don't trust the DIC MPG readings, or the TPMS readings. Mass produced parts are know to have faulty ones get out into the system. Is it not possible that the programming is correct, but the sensors are faulty? Lets say the sensor reads 1.2 Gs and that is above the threshold for deployment, but the car only hit .75 Gs which is under the threshold for deployment (Numbers used for example only). That is what the problem is, and we as consumers can't prove it because we don't have the means to check the calibration on the sensors. To me since there is only a small number of cars that this is happening to, it would point to individual faulty sensors and not a programming error. With the number of people going to AutoX and roadcourses in these cars, we would be seeing more deployments if the system was "working as designed" in cases like this one here.

[macwest]

Originally Posted by ratfinkharley

Read this...

http://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam...wm2ndprint.pdf

Page 10 specifically;
"Damage Due to Accident, Misuse, or Alteration The New Vehicle Limited Warranty does not cover damage caused as the result of any of the following:
. Collision, fire, theft, freezing, vandalism, riot, explosion, or objects striking the vehicle
. Misuse of the vehicle such as driving over curbs, overloading, racing, or other competition.
Proper vehicle use is discussed in the owner manual..."

The question then comes up of what is defined as miss use in owners manual then an argument can be raised on misrepresentation by GM on coverage ata track.

Originally Posted by oldfriend

Ford and GM also specifically doesn't say .....don't take the car to the lake .....
Should we assume that's okay to do so ?
Or they also don't say that you ,,,can't make the car jump across Grand Canion .... Does it make them responsible if someone tries it and fail ?

Some of these comments are pure biased in GM's view and Your point is completely ludicrous. All my arguments are within bounds for reasonable expectation based on GM advertising and sales information. A point to take is that people have won lawsuits on allot less merit.

[TxBandit911]

My 1LE has service guidelines listed in the manual for track use....

I have also heard of the airbags deploying on a test drive in a ZL1...resulting in a broken forearm of the passenger.

[Angrybird 12]

I believe if air bag deployment occurred in a non accident situation on the public highway either GM should fix it under warranty or your Comprehensive insurance should cover it.
If its on the track it should depend on if it was a actual competition (no) or if it was just a open track day (yes).

[07-SRT]

Originally Posted by ratfinkharley

Read this...

http://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam...wm2ndprint.pdf

Page 10 specifically;
"Damage Due to Accident, Misuse, or Alteration The New Vehicle Limited Warranty does not cover damage caused as the result of any of the following:
. Collision, fire, theft, freezing, vandalism, riot, explosion, or objects striking the vehicle
. Misuse of the vehicle such as driving over curbs, overloading, racing, or other competition.
Proper vehicle use is discussed in the owner manual..."

So my 2014 SS has a lap timer.... When would I use that other than racing? Isn't GM contradicting themselves ?

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by 07-SRT

So my 2014 SS has a lap timer.... When would I use that other than racing? Isn't GM contradicting themselves ?

No, it's intended to use it on "open track days" it's not racing, since no official race is taking place and no prizes awarded.

[jd10013]

Originally Posted by TxBandit911

My 1LE has service guidelines listed in the manual for track use....

I have also heard of the airbags deploying on a test drive in a ZL1...resulting in a broken forearm of the passenger.

then that would probably be covered. but those are 55-60k car's that are sold as a track cars, not a 25k LT

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by mhoskins76

Unfortunately for the OP he was tracking the car and the sensor set off the airbags. It sucks, but the best and easiest way for the OP is to get it fixed and move on.

Autocrossing =/= tracking. There is a clear difference.

Autocross is not a high speed event (speeds rarely reach actual open-highway speed), nor is it particularly riskier than normal driving. Normally, autocrosses are held on large, open parking lots or occasionally on airfields rather than actual road courses.

Insurance is specifically available for HPDE/open-tracking/road course track days, whatever you want to call them. I have never heard of such being available at the autocross level.


Norm

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Hilarious that you guys don't understand the physics of a large car on an autocross course and the accelerations required to fire the airbags in a rollover.................combined with the HUGE liability GM undertakes if the airbags DON'T go off when and if you roll your car on an autocross course.

Airbag tuning is different manufacturer to manufacturer. I used to work in crashworthiness and there is a "no fire" threshold, a "may fire" threshold and a "must fire" threshold. These numbers are not industry standards.

I am bothered at you guys that SLAM GM for this. Take the ignition cylinder issue aside and I can assure GM does not get nearly the credit for what they do in this regard. GM crashes hundreds of cars per year optimizing for frontal, side and roll over. In fact if you study your history, you would know that GM basically invented this stuff. They used to picket the GM Tech Center over the anesthetized pig studies where GM was doing the very first studies on the effects of airbags on human tissue, pigs being a close surrogate.

And turning off the roll over sensors is different than turning off the side impact sensors. One is looking for inclination (30 degrees as I understand from Toyota), the other for pure lateral or near lateral g's that indicate an impact. I'm pretty sure Toyota isn't allowing you to turn off the side impact system. Someone can prove me wrong, but there are Federal requirements for side impact that the customer can not be allowed to "turn off" at their discretion. If any manufacturer is using the side airbags to pass the pole test (most severe test you can imagine) then they can't be turned off. Inclination is another story.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...C496532327FA04

What you're telling me is that not enough homework was done to separate maximum possible lateral acceleration from tire grip from the acceleration consequence of striking an "immovable" object or the lateral acceleration implicit with overturning. That insufficient anticipation was made for people possibly upgrading their tires from OE either for better performance outright or as a consequence of the OE tires wearing out and being replaced with grippier ones. It's not like a Camaro is an SUV and potentially subject to overturning without some sort of tripping mechanism present.


Norm

[GVA 45TH 2SS]

This brings up another point.
besides being on a track at time of deployment, have you made any suspension changes?
lowered the car?
Changed the factory wheels or tires?
GM will probably deny based on changes to factory components.

I doubt any changes have been made to the airbag system in 2012. But the FE3 suspension was pre 2012, 2012 and up went to the stiffer FE4.

I would think that if someone was avoiding a accident on the highway and the Bags deployed, GM would entertain the idea of replacement after reading the black box.

If the same happened to any car that was modified whether it was on or off the track. GM would most likely DENY the claim, EVERYTIME.

[jd10013]

Originally Posted by GVA 45TH 2SS

I would think that if someone was avoiding a accident on the highway and the Bags deployed, GM would entertain the idea of replacement after reading the black box.

in that case the insurance could probably cover it. his biggest problem is that he was at a track. GM is just going to say it's a street car, and they aren't responsible for what happens off the street.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by GVA 45TH 2SS

This brings up another point.
besides being on a track at time of deployment, have you made any suspension changes?
lowered the car?
Changed the factory wheels or tires?
GM will probably deny based on changes to factory components.

At least part of that won't pass muster against Magnuson-Moss . . . the part where M-M says that "branded parts" cannot be required, branded parts here meaning at least tires and shocks/struts - and quite likely wheels and other parts as long as they are essentially similar in dimension/spec to OE parts on other Camaro "trims".



Never mind that it is a lot like shooting yourself in the foot to provide a car with obviously greater performance intent than the average grocery-getter sedan . . . this being true regardless of which Camaro trim is being discussed . . . and then turn around and indirectly deny or at least strongly discourage use of that performance via excessively conservative airbag settings.


FWIW, I've never heard of anything similar happening to Mustangs on any of several forums devoted to that car, but off the top of my head I can recall Camaro incidents at drifting, open-tracking, autocross, and apparently at least one in street driving. On at least two occasions, I've put my car through highway debris-avoidance maneuvers that were right up there at an autocross-level of violence. I'd sure hate to have been startled in the middle of either of those episodes by an errant airbag deployment.


Norm

[McRat]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Hilarious that you guys don't understand the physics of a large car on an autocross course and the accelerations required to fire the airbags in a rollover.................combined with the HUGE liability GM undertakes if the airbags DON'T go off when and if you roll your car on an autocross course.

...

A car that will roll when turning sharp or braking at 60mph is called a Jeep.

You PHYSICALLY cannot roll a:

Camaro
CTS
Vette
Mustang
Lightning
Ferrari
Lambo
Volt
GMC 3/4 ton truck, factory setup
etc

on level pavement. This you can call AutoX if you like.

There is not enough available tire force to get the body to lift more than 1 tire. You might spike to 1.5g but that would be it on level ground in a heavy car (>2400lb).

How do I know? This is the list of cars (not all) that I've looped. Most of them were on AutoX tracks, or during testing.

I'm most proud of looping the Volt yesterday at 60mph. I didn't think I could do it. Put sticky tires on front, inflate OEM rears to 54psi, do and S turn at 60 at traction limit, then nail the brakes when you get max body roll. 1.5 revolutions!!!

Freaking GoPro choked, but my daughter was riding shotgun, and it was at an AutoX. Wish I had the video.