Looks like there is finally proof, the Manual IS Quicker....

[fbird777]

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

Yes.

Stock 02 Camaros WERE doing 12's and I RAN 12'S TOO! ...high 12's but still.... so there.

What I want to know is who said..... 4.6 0-60. I KNOW.

I also WILL quote Al Oppenheiser when he was introducing the LS3 engine in the manual as he said, "422hp. And, it may even creep up from there."

Yes, I quoted him. We were all there. He said ALL OF THE NUMBERS RELEASED THUS FAR were all most likely off....as they continuously outdo themselves on the track!

I also heard a little something about the order codes for the LS3 being the same as that of the vette.....shall we say, "may creep up from there?" and "430hp" in the same sentence???

And, if ANYONE here knows anything about a 12.4 quarter mile time done by Al in a special LS3 manual at a little place called Milford, please chime in.

You all do know that Al is a hell of a driver.....not your everyday driver out on the streets, but a person who knows how to push a car to it's limits.

So...something to chew on. And...my Camaro is running 12.88.....just a litte air intake is all. My 02 Z28 ran 12.74 w/ SLP loudmouth, CAI, Lid, KN, and smooth bellows. DON'T tell me it's not possible. HECK, the 5th Gen has 100 MORE hp!!!




With all do respect, Holden....you, sir, will be in for a great suprise!!!

And I'll eat my words if I'm wrong.......which I won't be!

I see at least a 12.9 but in my gut I think it will capable of a 12.7 STOCK. Oh yeah, speaking of 4th gens, stock 01's and 02's could definatley run high 12's with a good driver soooooo give the new SS 100 more horses and only 300lbs more weight and you are AT LEAST looking at high 12's. Don't forget about all the other things the new Camaro has going for it; IRS, better suspension, better brakes, etc.

[CWI]

Maybe we will do 12.9437203772910185438943874312896689165675.

Dial in on that. Everything is guessing at this point. I have seen no official numbers nor have I seen a review. The V6 doesn't even have accurate numbers yet. The magazine writers didn't get to do any performance testing yet. Until I see a valid review or official numbers from GM or see what mine will do next March, you're all full of Speculate all you want. That's all any of us can do for now.

[Supermans]

Why in the world would Scott let this 0-60 being 4.6 statement that was wrong last for such a long time???

[SS4EVER]

Originally Posted by headpunter

can always put in a better twin disk clutch to hold more power after i burn the 1st one up

There's really no guarantee that you are going to burn the clutch on the first manual that you are going to drive. Yeah, if you don't know how to drive it, and you don't drive it correctly in the long run, I'm saying months on end, yeah then you are going to burn the clutch.

I can't say that I never burned the clutch a little when I was learning. You'll recognize the smell of a burnt clutch and you'll never forget the smell... but like I said give it a month and you'll get the hang of it.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by CWIweldace

Also someone said on this thread something about .5-2 seconds to complete a shift with a manual. Sounds like your clutch is disengaged 6 to 8 seconds in a 1/4. You're gonna red line alot. Your times are definately gonna suck. Get the automatic.

that was referring to the amount of time the average driver takes to shift during a 1/4 mile pass.


if you know what you are doing you wont be redlining. but anyone whos driven stick knows that right?

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by SS4EVER

There's really no guarantee that you are going to burn the clutch on the first manual that you are going to drive. Yeah, if you don't know how to drive it, and you don't drive it correctly in the long run, I'm saying months on end, yeah then you are going to burn the clutch.

I can't say that I never burned the clutch a little when I was learning. You'll recognize the smell of a burnt clutch and you'll never forget the smell... but like I said give it a month and you'll get the hang of it.

+1

As long as you don't riiiiiide the clutch you shouldn't have to worry about roasting it. Let it in and let it out. don't ever rest your foot on the pedal while driving. Even when I speed shift I tend to hover my left foot just above the clutch just to be safe.

Normal shifts flat road:

Right Foot off the gas left foot clutch all the way to the floor. Slowly release the clutch until you feel it catch. The engine rpms will drop a little and the car will begin to move. now give it a little gass and let the clutch all the way out. As long as you don't ride the clutch (meaning not all the way in and not all the way out) and rev the motor too high at the same time, you will be fine.

Clutch half way in and revs on the motor = rotten egg smell and new clutch.

If you want to roast the tires a little bit:

Clutch all the way to the floor, Rev the motor to about 3-4K and pop the clutch as quickly as you can... then hang on....

Kinda looks like this


or if your lucky this

[Wm Holden]

Originally Posted by CWIweldace

I try to keep the peace on here but I have to call where I see it. It may have been 32 years ago, but I dialed in 12:35 ET's consistantly with my '68 with stock 375HP rated 396. That was without a tach. Had Muncie M22 but people would come up and ask if I had the popular B&M automatic of the day. My right foot stayed on the floor the entire 1320 feet. Those times where on a track used by NHRA, so they were indeed official.

DON'T say no stock Camaro when you weren't there. Where you even born then? Sorry, but I lived it many times. I WILL get low 12's with LS3 with a few mods.

Also someone said on this thread something about .5-2 seconds to complete a shift with a manual. Sounds like your clutch is disengaged 6 to 8 seconds in a 1/4. You're gonna red line alot. Your times are definately gonna suck. Get the automatic.

My comments are usually pretty mellow but come on guys, think about what you're saying before you eat your foot.

I'm sorry..I should have said "NO NEW CAMARO"
which is what I meant....

so it's not about then (I was 6) but about tommorrow.
you can mod it to 12s I'm not saying you can't

BUT NO NEW stock CamAro will run 12 anything ..anywhere.. by anybody...

it's not even going to be close.

someone at atco will run 13.01...but not 12s. and here it is..JMO

(personally I throw out atco times as they seem supernatural...somethings wrong up there.)

[Wm Holden]

remember..."STOCK" means tires too!

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by Wm Holden

BUT NO NEW stock CamAro will run 12 anything ..anywhere.. by anybody...

it's not even going to be close.

someone at atco will run 13.01...but not 12s.

Originally Posted by Wm Holden

remember..."STOCK" means tires too!

12.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999999999999999999999999999999999999


is still technically a 12 second car.

and (def not bashing, just having fun) i would love to see you eat your words..... cus she'll do 12s easy.

on stock tires.

[Mblock66]

Agreed it is almost silly to think that this car won't do 12's stock. With a 4.6 0-60 (maybe better) if you can't run a 12 second run that is pretty bad.

Like I said if the vette guys are running sub 11.9's all stock on the LS3 on run flats, there is NO WAY this car won't be a 12's car stock. 12.7 is what I say

[Wm Holden]

Originally Posted by Mblock66

Agreed it is almost silly to think that this car won't do 12's stock. With a 4.6 0-60 (maybe better) if you can't run a 12 second run that is pretty bad.

Like I said if the vette guys are running sub 11.9's all stock on the LS3 on run flats, there is NO WAY this car won't be a 12's car stock. 12.7 is what I say

We should start a new thread with a pool...just for kicks...

I've got several timeslips 14.01 etc while stock....the stock rubber was HORRIBLE on gto's.
T/C on... jamming it off the line....takes more skill then people realize...and the car really can't make up for a bad driver.

[matt55]

2002 Z28 310 HP , 3433 lbs = 11 lbs per HP

"IF" they had 343 HP , 3433 lbs = 10 lbs per HP

And some ran high 12's

The 2002 Z28's would needed 375 HP to match the weight/HP of the 2010 SS's

2010 SS 422 HP 3850 lbs = 9.1 lbs per HP

It should by all means go faster !

[The_Blur]

I don't doubt that it can run 12s. I'm actually very excited to see some slightly modified times.

[CWI]

OK, Nothing against you Spike or you Holden. I, like pretty much everyone one here hope you eat your words. I am expecting times of mid to high 12's.

Some that hasn't even been mentioned on here is gear ratios. A quarter mile ET has a lot to do with HP but maybe just as much to do with gear ratios, both tranny AND rear end.

Let's say you have two cars with the exact same engine and HP. One has a manual with 4:10 rear gears and the automatic has 3:73 gears. A expert driver runs both thru the 1/4. He will get better times with the manual every time. The higher ratio of the 3:73s will take some of the HP, it takes more power to turn taller gears to get the same speed. Simple physics. It's easily possible for a car with less HP to be quicker than a car with more HP just by gearing.

Now if I'm not mistaken, I read somewhere that the SS manual will have something around 3:45 gears where the SS automatic will have closer to the 3:73s which will give it improved economy but sacrifice a bit of power put to the ground. The manual SS, with more HP and shorter gears will be at least half second quicker.

Think mid to high 12s for manual and low 13s for automatic. I have a good bit of experience at the track. My first 8 cars I owned were all V8s and all saw track time. My '68 had 3:56 butt gears, couldn't tell ya the ratios on the M22 Muncie, and 375HP 396ci. I got impressive hole shots for tall gears. 396 had good torque which translates into good starts off the line.

Any way, enough said, there's much more to it than HP. I expect to see GT 500s in my mirror. Even at 1000feet.