Camaros in the news: Two young men dead along with 2 Camaros

[chevydude26]

oh and 98 camaro is defeating the unsound logic of mhood lol

[mhood]

Originally Posted by 98_Camaro

Simply because "all" wasn't used doesn't mean my logic contained a fallacy. Had I used "all", it would have been a fallacy- a hasty generalization to be exact- and an incorrect gesture as a seat belt can't save a person from every circumstance.

I enjoy this sort of conversation and the respect is very mutual...you're a class act 98_Camaro.

BUT...you have failed to even prove "most". Specific data is purely quantitative and you have cited a general rule of physics as applicable to a specific situation without any specific data to verify your hypothesis.

Can we agree that it is probably best to educate young drivers as to how to avoid situations that require seat belts to save their lives some of the time?

[Coldpants]

Originally Posted by 98_Camaro

No, that's a hasty assumption right there. I did not, at any given point in my defense, even begin to relate my information to this car crash. You, on the other hand, only dissect my own information, and still relate nothing to this specific accident. In fact, we weren't even discussing the survivor until you brought them into this a couple posts ago. Furthermore, these are not pseudoscientic conclusions; these are basic Newtonian formulas.

You argued that there's no way to know if a seat belt can save you in a car accident. I presented the most basic car accident there is, explained the science behind it, and attempted to prove you wrong.

The assumptions I made do not disprove any of my logic; they simply set the course for my math. If we wanted to, we could plug in the actual numbers. 65mph was probably a conservative guess since the article said the car was traveling at a high speed. Maybe the guy didn't weigh 220lbs, maybe he was only 150lbs. Regardless, the basic forces at work here are still the same forces used in my example, the same forces present in just about any car accident. The variables might be different, but the same basic idea is there.

And please, feel free to actually prove me wrong instead of just telling me that I am.

Two things learned here. Stupid people died and this is the best use of physics. http://www.comedycorner.org/5.html

[Tigg]

this is footage..it shows you what seat belts do for ya and it shows what 100+mph will do....I drove over to the site today..It was very disturbing and sad..

http://wearecentralpa.com/wtaj-news-...?nxd_id=185615

[Diabel1969]

I'm sorry, I hope this doesn't offend anybody. I'm 40.. I grew up in my fathers garage, and have been physically behind the wheel of cars since I was 6 with a big pillow in his parking lot, been driving cars on the roads since I was 13, and caught street racing when I was 15, and then when I finally got my license at 16, I only had it for 4 months when I was caught racing again, and lost it. You can't blame the car for the kids decisions. Kids are going to do what they're going to do no matter how much you try to sway they're decisions. Do you remember being that kid? REALLY? I do! All you can do is raise them the best way you can, show them how to drive SAFELY, and push them to race on tracks and not streets. If your lucky enough, you showed them how to handle cars in a safe fashion, yet handle situations they may get into. Hell, I took my drivers test in a snow storm, and passed with flying colors because before I knew how to screw off with cars, I knew how to DRIVE them, and handle them under bad conditions. Sure, accidents happen, and we should take precautions, but kids are going to be kids, just hope that they had good values instilled in them while growing up..

[paulj7272]

Originally Posted by mfr1950

I think that before getting a drivers licence,everybody with a learners permit should spend a week working in an ER... They would get the message loud and clear!!!

1. I think this is a great idea, but I also favor driving age of 16 and NOT older like some states are pushing. I think we are babying our children and that isn't good. Having people spend time in an ER would be amazing I think most kids would be more responsible.

2. Wearing seatbelts is safer and they should always be worn, but people hate it being a LAW. Those are two way different issues. So I am against seat belt laws but I would ALWAY wear a seat belt. It's really silly not to.

3. Kids drive all sorts of cars irresponsibly it doesn't really matter what type - the power of course doesn't help but this story could have been a honda civic just as easily.

4. Truly a sad story, every parents worst nightmare - I wish them peace somehow.

[ctk1]

I live about 15 minutes from the PA crash. The 2 front passengers were not wearing seatbelts. The driver died on impact, the passenger later died at the hospital. There was a 3rd passenger that was wearing his seatbelt, and he is in stable condition.

[paulj7272]

Originally Posted by ctk1

I live about 15 minutes from the PA crash. The 2 front passengers were not wearing seatbelts. The driver died on impact, the passenger later died at the hospital. There was a 3rd passenger that was wearing his seatbelt, and he is in stable condition.

What condition is the car in after flipping and rolling? That would be great to know.

[UT-Engineer]

I started a thread sometime last week about a car accident and posted a "totaled" camaro spilt by a utility pole. The crash pic i posted occured a while back but for some reason the thread got removed/merged? I wasnt trying to re-create an old thread but thought it was a good reminder that we should all be careful and aware of what kind of power is underneath the hoods of our cars.

This is a very sad story and I wish us younger guys/gals would take this more serious instead of waiting till something terrible happens.

[JEFF2010SSMANUAL]

VERY SAD TO HEAR THIS...

When I was young, my dad WOULD NOT put our car into gear UNTIL

EVERYBODY had a seatbelt on. I know a women who DID NOT wear her

seatbelt while DRINKING DRUNK, her face HIT the windshield when she

hit a tree, she had no other injuries. BUT she KNOW CARRIES around

the PROOF that she DIDN'T believe in wearing seatbelts. I have a good

friend that NEVER wears seatbelts, even though one of his workmates

ALSO hit a tree at HIGH SPEED AND WAS WEARING A SEATBELT, he had

NO INJURIES because he WAS wearing a seatbelt. I always WONDER???

Why he STILL won't wear a seatbelt. FOOLISH PEOPLE never learn....

PUT ON YOUR SEATBELT !!!!!!!

[mhood]

Originally Posted by JEFF2010SSMANUAL

one of his workmates

ALSO hit a tree at HIGH SPEED AND WAS WEARING A SEATBELT, he had

NO INJURIES because he WAS wearing a seatbelt.

While wearing a seat belt is always a good idea, I think it sends the wrong message to young people (and old people too) when accidents happen because of reckless and/or inexperienced driving and "wearing seat belts" is credited with saving lives. People die every day in auto accidents while wearing their seat belts. More lives might be saved by teaching drivers not to drive recklessly and/or beyond their abilities rather than selling them on the idea that they are invincible when wearing their seat belt.

[ctk1]

Originally Posted by paulj7272

What condition is the car in after flipping and rolling? That would be great to know.

I saw a couple pics on the news, and really the only thing that let you know that it was a Camaro is the Rally Stripes...there wasn't much left that was distinguishable.

[ClaymoreZ28]

I have tended to say nothing on many threads where we see very young drivers behind the wheel of camaros - since I did not want to be dismessed as being a fuddy-duddy - and I dont want to pile onto a very sad thread where some young people needless lost their lives but there is a fundamental aspect of growing up which is very real - which is that the younger you are, generally speaking, the less feeling of "mortality" you have - and the more prone you are to take risks.

We had a situation at one of our local high schools where two 18 year olds borrowed a parents high performance car, took it out on wet roads and sadly, crashed and paid the ultimate price. Again - lack of seatbelts was a major factor.

I know there are some very responsible, intelligent 16 and 18 year olds out there - but ultimately, driving a high performance vehicle requires experience
and discipline :

- Basic routines - such as buckling up, correct mirror adjustment and situational awareness
- Awareness of road conditions, potential issues with greasy roads, loose surfaces etc
- Ability to "read" other road user behavior
- Building up understanding of you and your vehicle's limitatons and driving with those.
- Realizing that it sometimes the right thing to do is something which may make you seem less cool to some of your buddies


These all take time to develop and are compounded by the capabilities of a car like the camaro

Our collective " to do" as parents / future parents / car guys is to help get the message home that developing good discipline in these areas is critical and even more important than knowing all the tech specs / 0-60 times etc for the vehicles which we love.
We also need to make our kids feel comfortable to call out friends who are not following basic common sense - and if necessary to call home and ask to be picked up rather than travel with friends who are not showing the right behaviors - and that is a really tough thing to do.


My prayers and condolences for the family of those involved