Electric Vehicles

[Martinjlm]

The world's largest EV charging station (so far) brought to you by...


Shell!!

Shell opens its largest EV charging station globally in China
Reuters
September 19, 20234:32 AM EDT Updated 2 days ago



BEIJING, Sept 19 (Reuters) - Shell (SHEL.L) said it has opened its largest electric vehicle (EV) charging station worldwide in Shenzhen, China.

The station, located adjacent to Shenzhen airport, features 258 charging points, as well as solar panels with an annual generation capacity of 300,000 kilowatt-hours, Shell said.

The station is operated as a joint venture between Shell and Chinese EV giant BYD (002594.SZ), it added in a statement.


Shell said it currently operates around 800 EV charging stations through joint ventures or wholly-owned subsidiaries across China.

Reporting by Andrew Hayley; Editing by Alexander Smith

The station also has a restaurant and a convenience store in place. If successful, Shell may deploy this same model, though likely in smaller footprint, in other markets globally.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by el ess A

Not even going to mention the additional 12 billion dollar government injection that's being talked about being done for the flagging EV market.

This goes back to the fact that if EVs were such a great idea, people would line up to buy them. But they're not. A 55% increase in sales from last year doesn't impress me when you're making 3% of the market share. Going from 3 to 6 isn't what I'd call fantastic when you look at real numbers.

The biggest factor, in my opinion is "fear of running out" and the reality of actually owning an EV. People don't trust an EV thinking they'll run out of juice on a trip leaving them stranded. Mainly due to the infrastructure not up to par to support charging stations in more places. Then, people think they can buy an EV for $45K or so, when the real cost of them is 60 or 70 thousand. At some point, the purchase subsidies will stop. And when they do, so will EV sales.

And one more issue that I didn't give much thought to until the hurricane hitting Florida was you don't want to escape in an EV. The salt water and battery interaction has already burned up a few cars that flooded out with salt water. Not good.

I believe EV's won't be really viable until they figure out the cost of the batteries and the makeup of the batteries. New technologies are coming. We'll just need to wait and see how they pan out.

As I type this EV sales are 7.2% of the US new vehicle purchase market, so the year over year increases continue. Yes, 7.2% is not a lot in terms of total units, but the growth is the big thing now. Most of the reason sales isn't increasing even faster is that there are only so many models available on the market today.

In 2022 there were 26 EV nameplates. Porsche has that many 911 variants (not joking https://www.porsche.com/usa/models/911/). By 2030 we are forecasting over 300 models of EV.

As they become more plentiful and available in the form factors that people want to buy (Compact and Midsized Crossovers, Large 3-row SUVs) the volume will pick up accordingly.

[el ess A]

Well, for one, I personally don't really GAF much about EVs. They never impressed me, and I'm not interested in "renting" that technology or the vehicles that have it. It's an appliance. Lacks soul. EVs don't speak to me the way a real car does.

Interesting observation, we just got back from a UK/Ireland tour vacation. I fully expected to see EVs in abundance over there because I've seen too many UK people on car forums espouse how cool EVs are and they're the wave of the future, etc., and everyone should buy one to save the planet. Phooey. We did see 3 EVs in Dublin all in one place. All trying to jockey for parking spots close to a public charging pole next to the street. And only the big cities had EVs that we spotted. Obviously small sample size, but they're seemingly not as prevalent in the UK/Ireland as some people claim them to be.

While there were a few EVs running around, I've seen about the same number TOTAL of EVs as I had in my local area. And only saw a couple of charging stations. UK/Ireland is nowhere near ready for the EVs. In fact, I think they're worse off than the U.S. as far as infrastructure woes, which is pretty tough to do.

Even at roughly $7.40 USD per gallon equivalent, most people still drive ICE over there. It's like everywhere else, only the people with money have the means to afford an EV. The poor get peed on regardless of what continent you live on.

Buy them if you want to, but I can't help but think of "golf carts" every time I see one.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by el ess A

Well, for one, I personally don't really GAF much about EVs. They never impressed me, and I'm not interested in "renting" that technology or the vehicles that have it. It's an appliance. Lacks soul. EVs don't speak to me the way a real car does.

Interesting observation, we just got back from a UK/Ireland tour vacation. I fully expected to see EVs in abundance over there because I've seen too many UK people on car fo rums espouse how cool EVs are and they're the wave of the future, etc., and everyone should buy one to save the planet. Phooey. We did see 3 EVs in Dublin all in one place. All trying to jockey for parking spots close to a public charging pole next to the street. And only the big cities had EVs that we spotted. Obviously small sample size, but they're seemingly not as prevalent in the UK/Ireland as some people claim them to be.

While there were a few EVs running around, I've seen about the same number TOTAL of EVs as I had in my local area. And only saw a couple of charging stations. UK/Ireland is nowhere near ready for the EVs. In fact, I think they're worse off than the U.S. as far as infrastructure woes, which is pretty tough to do.

Even at roughly $7.40 USD per gallon equivalent, most people still drive ICE over there. It's like everywhere else, only the people with money have the means to afford an EV. The poor get peed on regardless of what continent you live on.

Buy them if you want to, but I can't help but think of "golf carts" every time I see one.

Keep in mind that when you are looking at vehicles on the street you are looking at vehicles in operation (VIO) which is arguably a sum of all the vehicles sold every year over the past 20 or so years. You are not looking at the current sales rates of any vehicles in particular. Electric vehicles are currently selling at the rate of 15% of new car sales in the UK (my company tracks this data). Being about 15% of a model year volume is about equivalent to being less than 1% of the vehicles on the road. In the US in 2023 EVs represent about 7% of new vehicles sold and also increases year over year.

Part of the reason you don’t see EVs all day everyday is because they have only been available in small numbers for a very few years. But when you look at the sales data you can see more clearly what’s happening. In 2022 there were 26 EV models available for purchase. Porsche has 26 versions of 911. By 2027 there will be as many models of EV available for sale in the US as ICE models. By 2030 there wil be more than 300 EV modes available for sale More models than the ICE vehicles for sale that year.

[0stones0]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Keep in mind that when you are looking at vehicles on the street you are looking at vehicles in operation (VIO) which is arguably a sum of all the vehicles sold every year over the past 20 or so years. You are not looking at the current sales rates of any vehicles in particular. Electric vehicles are currently selling at the rate of 15% of new car sales in the UK (my company tracks this data). Being about 15% of a model year volume is about equivalent to being less than 1% of the vehicles on the road. In the US in 2023 EVs represent about 7% of new vehicles sold and also increases year over year.

Part of the reason you don’t see EVs all day everyday is because they have only been available in small numbers for a very few years. But when you look at the sales data you can see more clearly what’s happening. In 2022 there were 26 EV models available for purchase. Porsche has 26 versions of 911. By 2027 there will be as many models of EV available for sale in the US as ICE models. By 2030 there wil be more than 300 EV modes available for sale More models than the ICE vehicles for sale that year.

And…not affordable to most.


Well…Im going to guess that those numbers may be real, only because ICE vehicles will have been gutted from production, by that time. Or at least, an attempt at it.

[90503]

The EV Bizzaro World continues to apply mass quantities of lip-stick to promote their popularity.

Using 26 versions of a Porsche 911 (who knew?) as a factoid to predict and compare to 300 EV models in 2030 isn't very reassuring or even sensible.

Of those 300 EV models, what...75 new versions of the Lyriq or Hummer that they can't seem to produce yet?...50 versions of the Blazer?

As the years march on, this Uber hi-priced and limited availability of new model EVs as the necessary precursor to mass produced, affordable EVs has less and less credibility.

Although, a Porsche 911 seems like an appropriate model for use as an EV future model equivalent when it comes to price, affordability and production numbers.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 0stones0

And…not affordable to most.


Well…Im going to guess that those numbers may be real, only because ICE vehicles will have been gutted from production, by that time. Or at least, an attempt at it.

Not really true. They are expensive now because the companies that are introducing them early are taking advantage of the fact that most people buying EVs now can afford expensive vehicles. That helps the OEMs recover enough money to cover the early cost of the tech. Look at Tesla. Now that they’ve been in the market a while, their prices are actually coming down. You can get a Model 3 for less than the price of a Camaro. In the example I’ve pictured below, the car starts at $40,000. Ignore the $29k price. That’s Tesla factoring in the incentive and gasoline savings. The Model 3 is $40k, $32,500 after incentive for buyers that are eligible. For $32,500 you get a base Camaro, no options. For $40k you can get a 3LT or an LT1 with no options.

Also look at the Chevrolet Bolt EV and Bolt EUV. Both start under $30k. They’re not for everybody, especially the people on this board, but let’s face it, more people buy basic transportation mobiles than sporty cars. Add to that the $x,000 you save per year in not buying gas and “affordable” starts to look different.

By 2025 there will be a number of $25-35,000 EV models coming to market. That’s before the incentive and before the “I don’t have to buy gas” savings. Affordable. You can barely find any ICE models in the market at $25,000 today.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

This is an unsolicited text I received a few months ago. This person is a millennial who is sales manager at a fairly large Ford dealership. He loves the EV Mustang and tried to convince me to get one... which I include to show lack of prejudice against EV's. Therefore I was kind of surprised to receive this...

I'll tell you what - I'm sitting through Electrification Training this morning.. my biggest take away: the Infrastructure sucks so hard I could not possibly justify a fully electric vehicle.

I mean, we all know it's not great... but when it's being 'sold' to you and novice salespeople can poke holes in EVERYTHING and the only response is "don't worry about that" you know it's a BIG problem.

So if this is the conclusion that a person who wants to love EV's comes to....

[90503]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

... Ignore the $29k price....

Also ignore the 333 miles of range....It's 272 miles for 40K.....Also ignore the AWD, Dual Motor...It's 2wd/Single Motor for 40K...

Spend 47K to 55K or more to get more miles or AWD....

A "Price" ? with "Gas Savings" subtracted ?...lol...Nice try, but there's no end to that shameless ruse...

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

This is an unsolicited text I received a few months ago. This person is a millennial who is sales manager at a fairly large Ford dealership. He loves the EV Mustang and tried to convince me to get one... which I include to show lack of prejudice against EV's. Therefore I was kind of surprised to receive this...

I'll tell you what - I'm sitting through Electrification Training this morning.. my biggest take away: the Infrastructure sucks so hard I could not possibly justify a fully electric vehicle.

I mean, we all know it's not great... but when it's being 'sold' to you and novice salespeople can poke holes in EVERYTHING and the only response is "don't worry about that" you know it's a BIG problem.

So if this is the conclusion that a person who wants to love EV's comes to....

As with most things EV related, there is no one size fits all answer. Here a few studied facts…

• >85% of EV buyers are able to plug-in and charge at home. This means every morning they wake up with a “full tank”.
• Most EV owners experience single-day drives beyond the vehicle maximum range less than 5 times per year. This means there might be 5 times in the course of a year that they would need to charge somewhere other than home (long trips)
• In 2021 there were 940,000 private, public, and semi-public chargers in use in the US. By 2030 there will be about 15 million.

One of my employees lives in Houston and drives a Mach E. They have an ICE SUV in the garage too. On a daily basis, they pretty much compete as to who gets the Mach E for the day. On the other hand, they once drove the Mach E from Houston to Michigan (they’re both from Michigan). They won’t be doing that again for a while. They’ll be using the ICE SUV for long trips. Their issue driving the Mach E to Michigan was not so much the ability to find charging stations, but the condition of the chargers when they would get there. Those that weren’t broken were in use. Tesla doesn’t seem to have this problem with their Supercharger network. And now pretty much all the automakers offering EVs have signed on to start using the Tesla Supercharger network.

With chargers, it’s less an issue of how many, it’s more about where they are and whether they are properly maintained. With Ford, GM, and pretty much every other major OEM shifting over to the Tesla NCAS charging standard, that problem seems to be working itself out.

[m6-lt1]

I don’t think affordability is that big an issue. Have y’all not seen how many pos $60k silverados have been sold lately? You know the ones where the lifters wind up eating the camshaft? There are plenty of people with budgets big enough to buy an ev which seem to be priced 60k on average as well. I also wouldn’t worry about having to pay 10-15k replacing the battery since you’ll wind up paying that to replace the lifters and cam in your 55k+ Silverado/suburban/Yukon.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

I don’t think affordability is that big an issue. Have y’all not seen how many pos $60k silverados have been sold lately? You know the ones where the lifters wind up eating the camshaft? There are plenty of people with budgets big enough to buy an ev which seem to be priced 60k on average as well. I also wouldn’t worry about having to pay 10-15k replacing the battery since you’ll wind up paying that to replace the lifters and cam in your 55k+ Silverado/suburban/Yukon.

There was a study released last week that finds most EV batteries will outlive the car.

The Globe and Mail reports that a study done in March by Recurrent Motors Inc. — a Seattle-based battery analysis company — showed that overall, EV batteries are actually very reliable and long-lasting. In fact, they may last longer than the vehicles themselves.

The study took real-world data from 15,000 EVs of various makes and models in the U.S. By linking to the vehicles’ connectivity systems, the company took several battery readings daily, including charging activity, EV battery level, and estimated range.

The data showed that most EVs driven close to 100,000 miles still have at least 90 percent of their original range left.


“I was surprised how well batteries are holding up, and how relatively infrequently batteries are being replaced,” Liz Najman, researcher and marketing manager at Recurrent and the study’s author, told The Globe and Mail. “That was a shock.”

The publication did report, however, that Najman made sure to point out that individual vehicles vary and that Recurrent’s data is constantly evolving. This is mainly because most EVs aren’t that old, with nearly 30 percent currently on the road in the U.S. being sold just last year. The majority of the rest are less than six years old.

In any event, the batteries are warranted for 8 years 100,000 miles. This is longer than most people typically keep their cars.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

Also ignore the 333 miles of range....It's 272 miles for 40K.....Also ignore the AWD, Dual Motor...It's 2wd/Single Motor for 40K...

Spend 47K to 55K or more to get more miles or AWD....

A "Price" ? with "Gas Savings" subtracted ?...lol...Nice try, but there's no end to that shameless ruse...

The $40k Tesla is RWD. As is my $55k Camaro. I don’t think that’s a big deal. That would be fine for a lot of people. And 272 miles of range is more than I drive in a typical day. Typical week for that matter. And I can ”fill ‘er up” while I sleep so that I would start each morning with 272 miles of range. That really doesn’t suck at all. Including the fuel savings in the price is a pretty lame move though.

FWIW, the Model 3 we’re considering would be a 2 motor AWD Long Range with 333 miles range for $47k. With the $7,500 incentive it’ll be net price at $39,500. We might land on a Model Y for about $3-4,000 more. Or we might land on a Bolt EUV for about $10,000 less.

Whether we spend $29,500 (Bolt EUV Premier Redline), $39,500 (Model 3), or $44,000 (Model Y) for our next car, it’s well within the range of reasonable. Especially compared to one friend who’s spending $82,000 for a pickup and another who’s spending close to $150k for an Escalade V.

[6spdhyperblue]

Did you give up on the lyriq?

I am considering bailing on the blazer EV and doing the model y

I have a Mach e std range as a commuter and have a potential life event in the works that requires more range