The 2011+ Mustang Thread

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by BigDan

So what's your friendly prediction for a full bolt on 5.0L and full bolt on + cam's. before you said the 5.0L couldnt hit 500whp with bolt on's + cam.

ULTRAZLS1's prediction #'s for his Camaro raffle

Bolt on's (no cam) whp ?
Bolt ons with cam whp ?

And I never retracted that statement.

I dont think it will hit 500rwhp with cams.

I would say some could touch 450rwhp with an electric water pump etc without cams. My car would be at that mark on a happy dyno as it is...let alone an electric water pump or some other tricks. I seen my car dyno 12hp apart on two back to back pulls with almost no gain in operating temps or change in the tune.

I would say about 480 rwhp max with cams.

And I will not count one freek occurance. I would have to see a couple. Like I said...dynos are all over the place.

If it becomes apparent that the 5.0 will hit 500rwhp as often as the LS3 with cams I will gladly admit it. I just dont think it will happen.

[wbt]

Originally Posted by Huggerorange73

I don't....it just gets tiresome the amount of threads about the same exact thing that are generated on a CAMARO forum, one thread started about it should suffice don't ya think?

I'm very interested, and love to partake.....you say tomayto I say tahmahtoe

Well....there are guilty parties on both sides for starting those threads. That being said this site has specific areas for "other" and "vs." sections for that very reason. I think the mods have a good handle on the who, what and where.

[Muscle Master]

Originally Posted by wbt

I don't buy that for one second. Very subjective. GM sells their vehicles with a longer warranty for one reason, competitive advantage. It has nothing to do with durability/quality.

Event though it digust me to say this!!!

In a "all heads up choice" your average buyer will buy a Camry over a Malibu anyday !!!

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

If I remember correctly the 5.0(Cammer version not Coyote) was already used in ALMS and was making 600hp.

Thats it for a full race motor?

I will gladly still stand by my statement.

That 600hp would only be on par with a strong H/C LS3 with off of the shelf parts with pump gas.

How is it fair to get into 3k dollar intakes etc? The ls3 can make 530 rwhp with off of the shelf parts installed and tuned by average joes LOL.

That is what I am mainly getting at. Buy your 5.0. Put some bolt ons and long tubes on it...order some comp cams and install all 4 of them yourself and make an honest 500rwhp that is daily driveable on pump gas. When the 5.0 can do this I will say it matches the LS3 as a motor mod for mod NA.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by ViperTomcat

Ok..so maybe I was off, I was wrong.

Behold, the ability to admit to being off base on a topic! I'd rather bow out of an argument with dignity than dig my heels in and never give up.

Thats cool I respect you for that.

Its just like saying an LS3 that makes 405 rwhp with an intake and tune (which I have seen before) is going to make 485 rwhp with bolts ons (what cammed cars make). I just couldnt swallow it...sorry if I was rude.

Check out that link to the header results for the 5.0 as well. It made only 415 rwhp. Less than a car with only intake and tune. See what I mean about dynos being all over the place?

I think from what I have seen the 5.0 gets more of a gain from a tune than an LS3 though...thats for sure.

[wbt]

Originally Posted by Muscle Master

Event though it digust me to say this!!!

In a "all heads up choice" your average buyer will buy a Camry over a Malibu anyday !!!

Agreed and is a paradigm that all the US auto companies have been working very hard to overcome. They have all made great strides over the past 18 months but still a lot of work to go.

[TaylorRyanSS]

That color hurts my eyes. But thats awesome that the Mustang can keep up with an M3...that being said I would still take the M3.

[Blue Maro Demon]

Originally Posted by Americanmuscle11

Most people can probably fit in the new Camaro OK with a decent amount of headroom, visibility is the issue.
Explain to me how GM will fix the Camaros blind spot problem for the 5th Gen? They won't.
Most cars have minimal blindspots as the manufacture try's to prevent this in the design from the beginning. Most cars do not have a C pillar the size of Texas. I'm glad it hasen't caused you much of a problem, the automotive press disagrees. The Camaro has a great look though it comes at the price of many compromises. Performance all the way to safety.



Matt's review was true. He just mentions what has been stated by all media before. So he likes the new 5.0? What faults does it have? It does have a better engine, better handling and better all around performance. It's quality is much better then the Camaro SS too. Ford benchmarked the M3. The 5.0 is faster then an M3 on a drag strip and handles just as good on a road course for far less cash. Did I mention it makes the Camaro SS look like a linebacker trying to run a marathon? The new Camaro Z28 will not own the new GT500. Will it be as fast as a new GT500? maybe. Quicker? possibly.
Just a heads up...Ford doesn't sit on it's hands waiting for GM to make the next move. The next generation Mustang will also be lighter and smaller overall. Probably a better car then the next Camaro too
Matt Farah is far from stupid. If one can get his own automotive review show, known website and get sponsored for all sort's of Automotive events for being stupid, sign me up.

Just shut up you obviously haven't driven a Camaro or own one so why are you here? If you like the new 5.SLOW so much then go somewhere else. And you are wrong about the Z/28 not being faster than the Shelby YES IT WILL BE look at the pics they are testing it on the track right now against the 2011 Shelby and beating it. I am sure they will probably even add more horsepower in case Shelby and Ford put more in the 2012 Shelby next year. And you are even more dumb for thinking the Mustang will lose anymore weight in the next gen...how much more weight do you really think its going to lose? Ford aren't building a Corvette here.

Once the 6th gen Camaro comes out Ford is basically screwed because they won't have the weight advantage anymore and IF they have one it wont be anything like the 300 lbs one going on right now and then it will come down to who has the better engines. And we all know who has the better engines which is Chevrolet. And you never did respond to anything about Matt Farrah driving like an idiot with a car taped to the hood or driving on a go-kart course he's one of the worst car reviewers ever and shouldnt be taken seriously! I happened across his review by chance and I always knew he was a Mustang Fanboy but not that much. Then you watch his other car reviews and they arent anygood either like the Ferrari 458 Italia and all the rest he's a joke!

[Blue Maro Demon]

What's funny about the whole 5.0 Mustang being faster than the Camaro is when you look at it the Mustang is ONLY faster due to the weight of the car. Once you take that weight away and the cars weigh the same the Mustang has all of a sudden ran out of advantages other than their track pack which GM will add soon to the Camaros.

The bottom line is all the Mustang Fanboys are scared now that the new 5th Gen Camaro came out last year since their favorite little car is in jeopardy cause last year the Camaro killed the Mustang in sales and horsepower and everything but yet you guys still want to support Ford who believe a v8 engine is 315hp as much as a v6. Then they make it faster with the 5.0 so its quicker just because its lighter than the Camaro when we all know having a better engine is more of a victory than just the car being lighter.

Then the Mustang is just ugly and the Camaro looks better so you Ford guys are still scared unless Ford does some serious work on the looks of that car they are in serious trouble. I'm just tired of all the Mustang fanboys coming to this site and then people like me have to shut them down again. I haven't said anything much about it and I enjoy talking about them but there comes a time when enough is enough. Camaro & Corvette are the best while Mustang's just another car on the road!

[snakekiller]

Originally Posted by Blue Maro Demon

What's funny about the whole 5.0 Mustang being faster than the Camaro is when you look at it the Mustang is ONLY faster due to the weight of the car. Once you take that weight away and the cars weigh the same the Mustang has all of a sudden ran out of advantages other than their track pack which GM will add soon to the Camaros.

The bottom line is all the Mustang Fanboys are scared now that the new 5th Gen Camaro came out last year since their favorite little car is in jeopardy cause last year the Camaro killed the Mustang in sales and horsepower and everything but yet you guys still want to support Ford who believe a v8 engine is 315hp as much as a v6. Then they make it faster with the 5.0 so its quicker just because its lighter than the Camaro when we all know having a better engine is more of a victory than just the car being lighter.

Then the Mustang is just ugly and the Camaro looks better so you Ford guys are still scared unless Ford does some serious work on the looks of that car they are in serious trouble. I'm just tired of all the Mustang fanboys coming to this site and then people like me have to shut them down again. I haven't said anything much about it and I enjoy talking about them but there comes a time when enough is enough. Camaro & Corvette are the best while Mustang's just another car on the road!

tell that to motortrend..lol Ford has forgotten about the camaro, as everyone else. you can see it by ford benchmarking the M3's performance, for the 2012 Boss 302 and the MT comparison to the M3.

this tread is more about bashing that actual facts.

[meanmike]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

You guys have a supercharger. We have a supercharger. I have no doubt that these kits are both good kits that will lead to great performance. I do, however, doubt that anyone springing for these kits will be stock. Look at the whole package.

Does a GMPP Camaro beat a Ford Racing Mustang after everything has been installed?

Let's take this even further. Does it matter? You Ford guys over here will come up with an explanation for increased power, but don't forget that your powertrain warranty is shorter than ours for good reason. The build quality of a car can be determined both by how powerful you can make it without braking and by how long it rides at that level of performance. Testing has led to higher warranty standards at GM because the products are designed to last longer.

Of course, you won't agree. That's why you drive Mustangs. They are good cars. I can't fault you for having the good taste to buy a decent American product. I just wonder why so much emphasis is placed on spreading Mustang gospel on a clearly Camaro website. We won't be buying this kit here, so I wonder why so many of you today have chosen to advertise a kit made for our competitors.

So what your saying is that Hyundai with their 20 year 200,000 mile warranty is because they build a better car than GM?

[All-Or-Nothing]

Originally Posted by meanmike

So what your saying is that Hyundai with their 20 year 200,000 mile warranty is because they build a better car than GM?

Isn't that 10 year 100,000 miles

[meanmike]

Originally Posted by All-Or-Nothing

Isn't that 10 year 100,000 miles

One of our local dealers had signs all over their lot saying 20/200,000 they were even advertising on the radio. Either way 10 is still more than 5.

[antimatr]

Originally Posted by Blue Maro Demon

What's funny about the whole 5.0 Mustang being faster than the Camaro is when you look at it the Mustang is ONLY faster due to the weight of the car. Once you take that weight away and the cars weigh the same the Mustang has all of a sudden ran out of advantages other than their track pack which GM will add soon to the Camaros.

I certainly won't argue that your hypothetical ~200-250lb diet for the Camaro would do wonders for straight and not-so-straight line performance, but for now, it is what it is. Also, there is no track pack for 2011 GT; however, much of the hardware from the 2010's Track Pack was incorporated into the regular 2011 GT (aside from the wider, summer-only Pirelli P Zeros and 19" instead of 18" wheels, which are now a part of the optional Brembo brake package).

Originally Posted by Blue Maro Demon

The bottom line is all the Mustang Fanboys are scared now that the new 5th Gen Camaro came out last year since their favorite little car is in jeopardy cause last year the Camaro killed the Mustang in sales and horsepower and everything but yet you guys still want to support Ford who believe a v8 engine is 315hp as much as a v6. Then they make it faster with the 5.0 so its quicker just because its lighter than the Camaro when we all know having a better engine is more of a victory than just the car being lighter.

Had Ford stuck with the 315hp 3V 4.6 for the 2011, I would most likely have a 6M 2SS/RS sitting in my garage right now. While I cannot speak for all of the Mustang owners that frequent this site, I have no loyalty to Ford (or for that matter, any automaker) whatsoever. I liked the 2010 exterior and interior refresh overall (aside from the ass end of the car), but shook my head in disappointment after finding out it would stick with the same old 5-speed and a 4.6 barely more powerful than my old 2006 GT.

Even with the interior/visibility/ergonomic issues I had with the Camaro, and despite the 2010 Mustang's lighter handling feel which I preferred, the overall performance gap between the two cars would have been sufficient for me to overlook said issues with the Camaro and put my money down on an SS. However, when Ford decided to drop the new 5.0 and 6-speed into the Mustang, which I subjectively regarded to be the better car in terms of ergonomics, interior layout, visibility and handling, that gap in performance was effectively nullified. Even then, the deciding factor for me between the two cars were ultimately numbers that didn't have anything to do with weight, horsepower, torque, etc.

Yup, I'm talking about price. I STILL might have ordered and brought home an SS had I found a dealer willing to sell me one at/under invoice (the price between the 2SS/RS and '11 GT Premium I spec'd were within $700 of each other). Such as it was, none of the Chevy dealers in my area were willing to budge under MSRP, whereas several Ford dealers quite willing to order me an '11 for at or below invoice, as well as $1250 in rebates/incentives at the time.

Originally Posted by Blue Maro Demon

Then the Mustang is just ugly and the Camaro looks better so you Ford guys are still scared unless Ford does some serious work on the looks of that car they are in serious trouble. I'm just tired of all the Mustang fanboys coming to this site and then people like me have to shut them down again. I haven't said anything much about it and I enjoy talking about them but there comes a time when enough is enough. Camaro & Corvette are the best while Mustang's just another car on the road!

I happen to like the overall exterior styling of the current Mustang AND Camaro. To me, they both looked good enough that when I was considering a replacement for my '06 GT, their looks were a non-issue - aside from the ass ends of BOTH cars (the person/persons responsible at GM and Ford for the rear end styling of the Camaro and Mustang, respectively, both deserve to be kicked in their respective ass/asses for their executions of rear-end styling - IMO, of course). However, if you feel that my car is a rolling turd on wheels, by all means you're certainly entitled to your opinion. I certainly won't be losing any sleep over it, however...