Mustangs................

[Ninjak]

Originally Posted by Zeus

dont expect IRS anytime soon

agreed. Most mustang owners did not like it in the cobra. RThe fact the 3link is equal with the (trac pack) to IRS basically means ford will stay with it.

[PA FAST]

Originally Posted by Zeus

dont expect IRS anytime soon

Well isn't Ford planning to totally redesign the Mustang in another 2-3 years? It's possible we might see it then

Originally Posted by Ninjak

agreed. Most mustang owners did not like it in the cobra. RThe fact the 3link is equal with the (trac pack) to IRS basically means ford will stay with it.

Wasn't the Cobra just a limited edition of the Mustang? I don't understand if IRS is so irrelevant in the Mustang why does the Camaro have it?

BTW, saw my first Camaro on a Chevy lot today. It was in red and the car was stunning.

[TJ91]

Originally Posted by gtahvit

You just knew Ford wasn't gonna hang back for long...

Now if we could just get the Z28 to go after the GT500...

Hey I can hope right?

You can;t hope, you can wait

[Bocephus]

Originally Posted by PA FAST

Well isn't Ford planning to totally redesign the Mustang in another 2-3 years? It's possible we might see it then

Wasn't the Cobra just a limited edition of the Mustang? I don't understand if IRS is so irrelevant in the Mustang why does the Camaro have it?

2014 for the all new Mustang. Just in time for the 50th anniversary. And the Mustang may not have IRS then. Ford is keeping the weight down in their cars for better fuel economy and a solid axle is an easy way to do that.

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by PA FAST

Well isn't Ford planning to totally redesign the Mustang in another 2-3 years? It's possible we might see it then



Wasn't the Cobra just a limited edition of the Mustang? I don't understand if IRS is so irrelevant in the Mustang why does the Camaro have it?

BTW, saw my first Camaro on a Chevy lot today. It was in red and the car was stunning.

The cobra wasn't a limited edition, just another trim level. The GT more for the everyday joe, the cobra more for the performance enthusiast.

[Thrillz]

Fair review imo Mind i add one though to the mustang has that the camaro doesnt. Its the mustang is a "me too" car. Sorry had to throw that in there ;o)

[DGthe3]

As a point of comparison to other 5.0L DOHC DI V8's out there ...

Lexus IS-F
416 hp, 371 ft-lbs

Jaguar XF
385 hp, 380 ft-lbs


I couldn't find any others (surprised that there are 2 out there with the same configuration as what Ford proposes) but I would be surprised if the Ford 5.0 bests the Jaguar's numbers. And something tells me that those engines are a bit more than ~$8000, which is about the limit for what would make this engine affordable in a Mustang GT. Is it possible? Sure, but I will not sit around waiting for all the promises to be fulfilled at once: A 5.0 making 400 hp/400 ft-lbs in a $30 000 Mustang that weighs 3500 lbs and passes all 2012 crash tests with 5 stars. Ford will surely meet some of those specs, possibly do better. But all of them? No.

Additional, with regard to the 2012 crash standards, I think its buried in the forum somewhere (don't have the time to search) that the Camaro is meeting all upcoming safety standards, which would include the 2012 rollover revision.

By the way, I am strongly resisting the urge to speculate as to what GM might do to help the Camaro duke it out with the 2011 Mustang.

[rays]

Cons of Mustang:
5 speed.
Aging technology thats been milked to death. Sequential taillights and glass roofs arent gonna cut it. Nees a 6 speed, They need to drop that 3.5 Direct injection turbo they have in the 6 and they need a stronger 8 for the GT.
It just looks ugly from the back.
Gt500 Gas Guzzler Tax.

Cons of Camaro:
Visibility
So many people want one.
Only summer tires on the 20" wheels

I hope they do come out with a Z28 but they should do it right. It should be a 6.2L or 7.0L with Direct Injection Efficient enough to Keep the tree huggers happy and strong enough to smoke the Gt500. They need to dig out of the hole their in before they go re-tool stuff though so it will take a while.
I'll trade in my 2LT for the Z28 if thats what happens

[Cessna510]

The new stang puts down some nice #'s and some are painfully close to the maro for just packing a 4.6 under the hood. Both cars are great, but right now the camaro just comes out on top... That being said, us chevy boys are going to be cringing when the 5.0 comes back IF the stang stays light

[syr74]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

As a point of comparison to other 5.0L DOHC DI V8's out there ...

Lexus IS-F
416 hp, 371 ft-lbs

Jaguar XF
385 hp, 380 ft-lbs


I couldn't find any others (surprised that there are 2 out there with the same configuration as what Ford proposes) but I would be surprised if the Ford 5.0 bests the Jaguar's numbers. And something tells me that those engines are a bit more than ~$8000, which is about the limit for what would make this engine affordable in a Mustang GT. Is it possible? Sure, but I will not sit around waiting for all the promises to be fulfilled at once: A 5.0 making 400 hp/400 ft-lbs in a $30 000 Mustang that weighs 3500 lbs and passes all 2012 crash tests with 5 stars. Ford will surely meet some of those specs, possibly do better. But all of them? No.

People love to compare the Mustang's future mill to the Jags as if the 5.0L Jag V8 is a definitive benchmark...it isn't. While nice enough the AJ V8 was a compromised design in many respects from the outset, and this newer, 5.0L evolution of the same is far from ideal in a lot of respects. Ford's 5.0L Coyote is, by all accounts, a clean sheet design that answers the question 'how would we do it if we decided not to make countless, ridiculous concessions to fwd fitment (Ford's own 4.6L)or ultra small displacement versions (The Jag AJ V8) , etc.' The AJ V8, much like the 4.6L Ford, was the victim of a few too many compromises and the new 5.0L unit based on the same doesn't shake enough of them off.

The Lexus V8 is arguably a better comparison, but the 5.0L unit found under the hood of the ISF is arguably far less impressive than the more sedate version of the same found under the hood of the run of the mill LS460. Effectively, Toyota paid Yamaha an unknown amount of money to poke the 4.6L V8 out to 5.0L and mess with the heads and intake. For their efforts they found another thirty peak hp, lost fifteen lb-ft of torque, and ruined the 4.6L units relatively flat torque curve for their trouble.

How Yamaha manged such small gains from such a heavily reworked piece is beyond me. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if the ISF would have been a faster car had Lexus just stuffed the LS sedans more sedate 4.6L under the hood and called it a day since the 5.0L gives up so much torque in the lower and mid rpm range. You wont impress me with either of the above 5.0L units. The fact that Lexus can manage nearly 390hp from a smaller, 4.6L V8 sedate enough to power a luxury car that could lull a hopeless insomniac into sleep says what I need to hear. A 400+hp 5.0L V8 is no stretch, even without DI.

By the way, I am strongly resisting the urge to speculate as to what GM might do to help the Camaro duke it out with the 2011 Mustang.

I suppose GM could throw DI at the LS series V8, but given the current cash situation and the emphasis on small cars and hybrids I don't expect any major changes to the LSX V8 engines for at least the next few years. In fact, if we see any change I would expect that the LS3 might grow AFM for the sake of CAFE and lose a few horses.

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

As a point of comparison to other 5.0L DOHC DI V8's out there ...

Lexus IS-F
416 hp, 371 ft-lbs

Jaguar XF
385 hp, 380 ft-lbs


I couldn't find any others (surprised that there are 2 out there with the same configuration as what Ford proposes) but I would be surprised if the Ford 5.0 bests the Jaguar's numbers. And something tells me that those engines are a bit more than ~$8000, which is about the limit for what would make this engine affordable in a Mustang GT. Is it possible? Sure, but I will not sit around waiting for all the promises to be fulfilled at once: A 5.0 making 400 hp/400 ft-lbs in a $30 000 Mustang that weighs 3500 lbs and passes all 2012 crash tests with 5 stars. Ford will surely meet some of those specs, possibly do better. But all of them? No.

Additional, with regard to the 2012 crash standards, I think its buried in the forum somewhere (don't have the time to search) that the Camaro is meeting all upcoming safety standards, which would include the 2012 rollover revision.

By the way, I am strongly resisting the urge to speculate as to what GM might do to help the Camaro duke it out with the 2011 Mustang.

Don't forget the hyundai v8.

[Super83Z]

Originally Posted by syr74

I suppose GM could throw DI at the LS series V8, but given the current cash situation and the emphasis on small cars and hybrids I don't expect any major changes to the LSX V8 engines for at least the next few years. In fact, if we see any change I would expect that the LS3 might grow AFM for the sake of CAFE and lose a few horses.

The Gen V small-block is all done. DI all ready to go.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by Super83Z

The Gen V small-block is all done. DI all ready to go.

Out here on the interent forums things work in nice, neat little packages like that. In the real world where they have to actually develop and produce these things, not so neat. If this engine was the miracle worker some on these forums claim, and would be so amazingly cheap to put into production, it would already be here. It would cost GM a substantial chunk of change to put this piece into production, and it is painfully obvious that they don't have the money right now.

[Georgie]

don't forget the saleen parnelli jones has a 5.0 based off the 4.6 and its nearly at 400hp. a 5.0 built from the ground up should make better numbers than that