FIXED!!Monster clutch. Those that have tracked,question concerning your 1LE's clutch

[CrystalRedTintcoat]

Originally Posted by tramtwo

if you knew how to drive...

The separate clutch reservoir is really about brake performance...

With the standard standard transmission on the LS3 some guys installed a heavy duty return spring on the clutch pedal for improved performance.

EDIT: As far as warranty.. I heard it out the mouth of the Chief Engineer himself. If something breaks on the track your covered! He also said that if any dealership tried to say otherwise have them contact him... I like Al.

Tram,

Good to see you here again. Been a long while. Didn't you talk to Al at the fest?


-CRT

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[CrystalRedTintcoat]

Originally Posted by Balue

Bummer to hear Mark. But I call BS on the throw out and agree with others on the slave. As far as the throw out bearing causing this? Well if the pedal assembly was faulty then it would have been causing unnecessary pressure on the system kind of like riding the clutch, in turn causing excess heat and wear. So wouldn't the warranted part be to blame for the over all issues??? Including expediting fluid break down and slave failure.

Now I know the main reason is the design and contaminated fluid but in response to their BS argument.

+1 I too doubt it's the throw out bearing. At least this soon. My '84 Z28 throw out bearing went at like 50k and man did it make a ton of noise. If the bearing is bad I suspect you'd hear it at idle. "Whwah whaw whaw whaw whaw whaw whaw..." kind of noise.


-CRT

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[CrystalRedTintcoat]

Check this out, guys. Just stumbled into this on the Bondurant site.

The Bondurant School’s fleet of 1LE package Camaro SS's are powered by Chevrolet’s L99-code LS3, good for 426 horsepower through a six-speed manual transmission. To this solid basic package, we’ve added Eibach springs and anti-roll bars, a Centerforce clutch (when the factory-supplied clutch requires replacement), plus PFC brake pads and SRF brake fluid.

Used exclusively in our two-day High Performance Driving course.

Centerforce DYAD Clutch
From JDP's site ...

We also offer a New GM Slave Cylinder and Throwout Bearing Assembly in addition to provide a complete package. We strongly suggest changing this assembly when installing this system. We also offer the TICK Performance Clutch Line and Speed Bleeder to provide a complete solution.

SRF Racing Brake Fluid
From Castrol's site ...

The exceptionally high dry boiling point (higher than 300°C) makes Castrol React SRF Racing ideal for use under arduous braking conditions such as rallying or racing. It exceeds the boiling point requirements of DOT 5 brake fluid.

Performance Friction pads

[JDP Motorsports]

Originally Posted by cornerspeed92

So i had like my 6th or 7th track day in my 1LE Sunday and my clutch pedal acted up. About half way through my 2nd session i started to lose feeling with my clutch pedal. It kinda like felt like i lost pressure/resistance in the pedal. As i started my 3rd session before i even had half a lap in it started again and even felt like it was also sticking and not the normal return. I have the fluid separated, and always change it, so it's not cause of dirty fluid. There was another 1LE that had clutch issues on the way home. Has anyone who has actually put your car through the paces on track experienced anything like this? The drive home it felt completely normal.

It was good talking with you today as always. We've had the notorious "Clutch Pedal to the Floor" issue in high RPM down shift situations as well as high RPM acceleration scenarios. We found it was caused by contaminated fluid and/or in high heat situations. We've had slave cylinders fail primarily on cars driven on the road course but I've seen them fail on street driven cars as well. The throw out bearings have a metal outer shell with a plastic inner housing. This has happened with 100% stock clutch/hydraulic combinations as well as combinations with separate reservoirs.

The combination that we've been running for a few years is a separate clutch reservoir along with a clutch pedal return spring. It has worked great for us until I had a clutch failure in Portland at a USCA event; going into turn 1 the pedal decided to go to the floor on a 4th to 3rd. I forced it into 3rd and ended up breaking more stuff.. I'm now running a Centerforce clutch and we'll see how it holds up.

Originally Posted by X25

Actually, I think it is because you separated the clutch fluid. I have been trying to make this point everywhere. The C5 and C6 Corvettes that come with that little clutch reservoir are notorious for sticky clutch since the little clutch reservoir is just not big enough to provide enough fresh fluid to cycle through. It seems GM understands this issue, and Gen5 Camaro (which was released 5 years later) comes with a huge brake fluid reservoir serving both the brakes and the clutch. I used to change the clutch reservoir fluid all the time when I owned Corvettes, but I don't even bother with the Camaros, and everything is running fine.

If you have contaminated the slave cylinder to the point that it does not seal as good as it normally does, this will get worse in time even if you keep the fluid clean or even get it flushed. I would hope not. I highly recommend you ditch that little cute clutch reservoir

In an ideal world, you would have big reservoirs for both the brakes and the clutch separately.

I'd have to disagree with you regarding the reservoir. I've seen this exact thing happen with the stock reservoir as well and far more times than it has with a separate reservoir. Depending on how you drive the car it is also much easier to clean the clutch hydraulics having a separate reservoir. The other unforeseen issue is you're contaminating your brake system with debris from the clutch system; you'll notice the fluid in the brake reservoir starts to look pretty bad and it is due to the fact the clutch shares a reservoir.

I agree that the slave cylinder will suffer performance wise once it has been contaminated and we've seen that as well.

Kind regards,

Jordan Priestley
888.308.6007

[X25]

Originally Posted by JDP Motorsports

....

I'd have to disagree with you regarding the reservoir. I've seen this exact thing happen with the stock reservoir as well and far more times than it has with a separate reservoir. Depending on how you drive the car it is also much easier to clean the clutch hydraulics having a separate reservoir. The other unforeseen issue is you're contaminating your brake system with debris from the clutch system; you'll notice the fluid in the brake reservoir starts to look pretty bad and it is due to the fact the clutch shares a reservoir.

I agree that the slave cylinder will suffer performance wise once it has been contaminated and we've seen that as well.

Kind regards,

Jordan Priestley
888.308.6007

I'd have to disagree, too:

• The fact that you see this happening more in OEM reservoirs does not mean anything statistically, since most Camaros do not have the separate clutch reservoir mod to start with.
• We should establish two facts:
  1. Separated setup would be best to avoid cross-contamination.
  2. The amount of fluid in the reservoir greatly helps with the issue, since it takes more time/driving to contaminate compared to a car with less clutch fluid available in the reservoir.
• The best solution would be two separate and large reservoirs.
• Given the fact that there is no such solution currently offered, you have to choose your evil: contaminating the brake fluid, or losing clutch pedal. I have never ever heard of anyone losing brake pedal due to contamination from clutch. Besides, the brakes do not recirculate quite as much like the clutch fluid does due to its design, so as long as you keep the reservoir fluid clean during brake bleeding/flush, the impact is minimal.
• Given these, keeping the OEM reservoir is quite an easy choice for me. Actually, even though I do track days frequently, my brake bleed sessions (cleaning the reservoir first) that I did just a few times was more than enough to keep the fluid clean enough. After all, there is a reason why GM put a huge reservoir to these cars.

[90503]

Originally Posted by JDP Motorsports

It was good talking with you today as always. We've had the notorious "Clutch Pedal to the Floor" issue in high RPM down shift situations as well as high RPM acceleration scenarios.

My $.02.....I've tracked with several of you guys and I do not use 2nd gear as much as a lot of you....Third gear works just great...lol....I used 3rd gear exclusively for Buttonwillow before, and 3-4-5 for Auto Club, never 2nd gear...lol....I probably give up a second or two per lap, but downshifting to 2nd seemed pretty hard on the old girl....At least so far I've always driven it back home...Maybe if I had a trailer I'd push it harder and use 2nd gear more....

Separate reservoir for me...Motul 600 for brakes, Dot3 for clutch and never a problem...

P.S. Tracked car at Spring Mountain as well...can't imagine much how it could have been any hotter conditions and all went well....drove it out there, and drove it home....

Just sayin', hard high rpm downshifting/upshifting in 2nd, might be a weak spot for the clutch....

[CrystalRedTintcoat]

Jordan, which centerforce model? Is it worth upgrading before stuff breaks? Bondurant is using Centerforce too but I don't know which model.


-CRT

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[h018871]

Originally Posted by CrystalRedTintcoat

Jordan, which centerforce model? Is it worth upgrading before stuff breaks? Bondurant is using Centerforce too but I don't know which model.


-CRT

+1
My questions exactly

[cornerspeed92]

Originally Posted by JDP Motorsports

It was good talking with you today as always. We've had the notorious "Clutch Pedal to the Floor" issue in high RPM down shift situations as well as high RPM acceleration scenarios. We found it was caused by contaminated fluid and/or in high heat situations. We've had slave cylinders fail primarily on cars driven on the road course but I've seen them fail on street driven cars as well. The throw out bearings have a metal outer shell with a plastic inner housing. This has happened with 100% stock clutch/hydraulic combinations as well as combinations with separate reservoirs.

The combination that we've been running for a few years is a separate clutch reservoir along with a clutch pedal return spring. It has worked great for us until I had a clutch failure in Portland at a USCA event; going into turn 1 the pedal decided to go to the floor on a 4th to 3rd. I forced it into 3rd and ended up breaking more stuff.. I'm now running a Centerforce clutch and we'll see how it holds up.



I'd have to disagree with you regarding the reservoir. I've seen this exact thing happen with the stock reservoir as well and far more times than it has with a separate reservoir. Depending on how you drive the car it is also much easier to clean the clutch hydraulics having a separate reservoir. The other unforeseen issue is you're contaminating your brake system with debris from the clutch system; you'll notice the fluid in the brake reservoir starts to look pretty bad and it is due to the fact the clutch shares a reservoir.

I agree that the slave cylinder will suffer performance wise once it has been contaminated and we've seen that as well.

Kind regards,

Jordan Priestley
888.308.6007

Thanks Jordan, yeah it was good to talk to you as well(P.S. Im still sporting your stickers on my baby )It's nice to know i can just pick up the phone and call you and you always have time for me, thank you
JDP customer for life!

[CamaroTom]

OP, I've seen a few of your track videos and while you are a excellent driver, you stated you weren't comfortable using the heal/toe method for downshifts. Unless you have changed your technique, I'd say this was the cause of your premature clutch failure.

[Balue]

UPDATE on mine: Well after them replacing the pedal and then bleeding the slave the pedal felt great. BUT, the clutch feels like it is slipping, once engaged it does OK but it is way to smooth there is no bite to it any more at all since I last drove it last week. I noted my concern that they may have damaged it when the porter kept turning it over and over while in gear and the pedal on the floor. My adviser immediately asks if I would feel better if he had the clutch replaced and it would be covered by them. So I accepted and also requested they inspect the slave VERY carefully when they drop the transmission. He agreed and said he estimates I will have the car back early/mid next week.

[Punisher80]

Originally Posted by Balue

UPDATE on mine: Well after them replacing the pedal and then bleeding the slave the pedal felt great. BUT, the clutch feels like it is slipping, once engaged it does OK but it is way to smooth there is no bite to it any more at all since I last drove it last week. I noted my concern that they may have damaged it when the porter kept turning it over and over while in gear and the pedal on the floor. My adviser immediately asks if I would feel better if he had the clutch replaced and it would be covered by them. So I accepted and also requested they inspect the slave VERY carefully when they drop the transmission. He agreed and said he estimates I will have the car back early/mid next week.

I see you are nearby in SD, where did you take your car to be worked on at?

[cornerspeed92]

Originally Posted by 1LEMayhem

OP, I've seen a few of your track videos and while you are a excellent driver, you stated you weren't comfortable using the heal/toe method for downshifts. Unless you have changed your technique, I'd say this was the cause of your premature clutch failure.

I have been working on it, it's not perfect yet, but it's still work in progress. This video is from Miller back in Aug. Just start the video at 5:20

[Balue]

Originally Posted by Punisher80

I see you are nearby in SD, where did you take your car to be worked on at?

Jimmie Johnson's