Exposed CF Insert Owners! Check Your Insert! GM Cust. Service/Fbodfather please look!

[cosmoZL1]

Originally Posted by IcePick06

I looked a little closer at mine today and there are 2 small blemishes on the edge (1 on the left, 1 on the right)...however they less than a 1/4 inch in length and really only noticeable in low lite conditions. I don't know if they are considered "cracks" like the ones some of you guys showed in the first page but I've seen CF do these when it is stressed and even when the weave is molded or bonded together like on CF wheels in the corners between the lip and the spokes. Since I have my CF insert fully Clear Bra protected with the most expensive film available (XPEL ultimate) I'm probably not going to replace mine as it will be too much of a hassle to go and have GM re-do it under warranty and the blemishes are so minor (especially in direct sunlight).

I will say this though, it's quite disappointing when the 2012 cars sat in QC for weeks and this CF insert was supposedly one of the issues and months later on the 2013 models they still didn't resolve it I love my ZL1 for what it is and I totally give props to Al O., Scott, Mike Judge and all the GM camaro team for creating such an outstanding car for the price...

But...

I've come to terms with the simple fact that the build quality of GM performance cars just aren't up to par with those of Audi, Porsche or BMW (excluding engine and suspension components of course) . Therefore, since I currently own a GM performance car, and I know the car will get minor nicks and things on the panels & wheels over time from normal use so I'm not going to be overly anal about this car. Maybe some of you should follow my lead so you too aren't left disappointed at the end of the day and can enjoy your car more for what it is: a budget "super" car

Seriously? For real? Kills me to see these posts. Have you for one second stopped to think before writing this for other people to read? Do you know the difference between the production process on the Camaro and a Porsche? Do you pay 55k for a world class super car and expect the 100k build process? BUDGET SUPER CAR? How many times does a new Porsche owner go back to the dealer for these same complaints? Never? HAHAHAHA.. Yeah right.. All these posts about some imperfection or another in the car that is mass produced by people that live everyday lives too. We ALL have good days and bad days.. Then, the car is loaded on a TRAIN! Not a truck transport. The car sees how many different people prior to the dealer? This car is THEE Nicest car bar none at under 120k. AND SURPASSES MANY MANY cars that far exceed this cost. You get a problem take it to the dealer. Get it fixed. Discuss it here. Whatever, Before you post complaining about the car you paid 55k for, expecting some perfect dream car built by people that have no personal lives or faults? Think about it. Go buy that foriegn car. Then you can go complain about it on some other website.

[G-Oil Guy]

Originally Posted by cosmoZL1

Seriously? For real? Kills me to see these posts. Have you for one second stopped to think before writing this for other people to read? Do you know the difference between the production process on the Camaro and a Porsche? Do you pay 55k for a world class super car and expect the 100k build process? BUDGET SUPER CAR? How many times does a new Porsche owner go back to the dealer for these same complaints? Never? HAHAHAHA.. Yeah right.. All these posts about some imperfection or another in the car that is mass produced by people that live everyday lives too. We ALL have good days and bad days.. Then, the car is loaded on a TRAIN! Not a truck transport. The car sees how many different people prior to the dealer? This car is THEE Nicest car bar none at under 120k. AND SURPASSES MANY MANY cars that far exceed this cost. You get a problem take it to the dealer. Get it fixed. Discuss it here. Whatever, Before you post complaining about the car you paid 55k for, expecting some perfect dream car built by people that have no personal lives or faults? Think about it. Go buy that foriegn car. Then you can go complain about it on some other website.

Actually, depending on where you live the car never touches a train. My car was shipped via truck the whole way. Never touched a train.

Also the reason me and JMAN are pissed is because the dealers DON'T KNOW when they will be able to fix it. That's the problem.

Also yes the cars are built by humans who have good and bad days. But that's why you have a quality control group. Their whole job is to catch the flaws before they become public.

[fbodfather]

OK - guys - again - deep breath.

Someone lives in Vancouver and is 99% sure of something -

Perhaps you are not.

We don't ever want one of our cars to come back for warranty - for any number of reasons - but the NUMBER ONE reason is this: It's inconvenient for you, the customer.

As to someone making the comment that GM Performance Cars are not up to par with BMW and Audi - show me the hard data. If you cannot, then please don't make such a statement. I don't say this to belittle you, but you might be interested to know that those of us within the auto industry DO talk to each other - and suppliers talk to each other. Every manufacturer today has issues - and some of them are quite serious -- (...you may be surprised to know that one of our Chevy Dealers had to go to court to get his Bentley bought back for bad paint.........who knew?)

I'm going to say it again: G-Oilman - we are going to replace your insert.

[G-Oil Guy]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

OK - guys - again - deep breath.

Someone lives in Vancouver and is 99% sure of something -

Perhaps you are not.

We don't ever want one of our cars to come back for warranty - for any number of reasons - but the NUMBER ONE reason is this: It's inconvenient for you, the customer.

As to someone making the comment that GM Performance Cars are not up to par with BMW and Audi - show me the hard data. If you cannot, then please don't make such a statement. I don't say this to belittle you, but you might be interested to know that those of us within the auto industry DO talk to each other - and suppliers talk to each other. Every manufacturer today has issues - and some of them are quite serious -- (...you may be surprised to know that one of our Chevy Dealers had to go to court to get his Bentley bought back for bad paint.........who knew?)

I'm going to say it again: G-Oilman - we are going to replace your insert.

Scott,

Thank you for the continued communication. However, after the initial complaint I just continued to discuss the issue. I made no further complaints. Until I went to the dealer.

Let me be clear. I am very happy at the service I received from the dealer and the service manager. I am also quite happy with the customer service reps handling of my issue.

My only issue now is that no one can tell JMAN and myself whn we can expect a repair.

I have no question that GM/Chevy will make me whole again. It's the lack of expected completion of the repair that is frustrating me.

Otherwise I'm right as rain.

Again, thank you for the continued communication.

[cosmoZL1]

Originally Posted by G-Oil Guy

Actually, depending on where you live the car never touches a train. My car was shipped via truck the whole way. Never touched a train.

Also the reason me and JMAN are pissed is because the dealers DON'T KNOW when they will be able to fix it. That's the problem.

Also yes the cars are built by humans who have good and bad days. But that's why you have a quality control group. Their whole job is to catch the flaws before they become public.

Personally was not addressing you in particular. It's why I said "take it to the dealer to get it fixed". "Discuss it it here". What I'm talking about is in my post. IE: REAL LIFE!! Not fantasy where there are no flaws. As Fbod has said, (I believe) They, just like any one that gives two bits for ANYTHING they do, THEY WANT THE BEST AS WELL!! The constant grief about some minor flaw here or there is expected on anything produced at some point. To whit: Guy had a plate drilled in his bumper by a dealer after he asked them not to. Some replies? Don't accept the car. "Make them fire the Tech". everything short of "bodily harm", and even that was noted. Really? Fire the Tech who probably has a family to feed? Bodily harm? REALITY!! Thats all. If the shoe fits...

[firecross91]

My 2012 insert looks fine. Thanks to fbodfather and all the workers at the plant for making my car. Only problem I have is that I have made a couple scratches in the paint and they really show up on a black car. But this car is and will be driven and driven hard. Just like it should be. Cannot wait for breakin to be done, seeing triple digits and redlines at the track.

[JMAN311]

With all the on and off constraints on all the different inserts I knew it wouldn't get replaced quick. The only thing I worry about is having the exact same thing happen to the new one when I eventually get it.

[DRTH VDR]

Really appreciate this ZL 1 forum. It keeps us all up to date on potential problems and cool upgrades. It also adds leverage to our requests for resolution with the General. Checked my 2012 #799 and all is well with the exposed CF hood insert.

Cheers - Boyd
Major USAF
Retired
2012 ZL 1
1993 Z28
1986 Corvette Coupe
1975 Corvette Convertible
1972 Corvette Convertible 454 big block
1957 Corvette Fuelie autocrosser
1958 Implala 348 TriPower

[Butcher]

Originally Posted by closs2sx

well i cant say for sure as i dont work for the supplier that supplies gm or gm but i would imagine they take the rougher ones and paint them

No, that is not what happens. The ECF insert and the painted insert are made in different ways. The ECF insert is MUCH harder to produce. That is why, even after painting it, the painted insert costs less than the ECF insert. There is no clear coat on an ECF insert. What you see on your car is what it looks like when it pops out of the mold. When a "painted" insert pops out of the mold, it pretty much looks like a piece of fiberglass. The two inserst are made in different ways and use different molds. For what they are charging for the ECF insert, they must be throwing away 60 - 70% of thier inserts.

[razorz28]

Originally Posted by Butcher

No, that is not what happens. The ECF insert and the painted insert are made in different ways. The ECF insert is MUCH harder to produce. That is why, even after painting it, the painted insert costs less than the ECF insert. There is no clear coat on an ECF insert. What you see on your car is what it looks like when it pops out of the mold. When a "painted" insert pops out of the mold, it pretty much looks like a piece of fiberglass. The two inserst are made in different ways and use different molds. For what they are charging for the ECF insert, they must be throwing away 60 - 70% of thier inserts.

Why would they be throwing away 60-70% because of the cost. I have been in the fibre industry since 85 and have never seen a part just pop out of the mold ready for sale, your info sir is just not right. I know sinks are different then car parts but each sink we make has at least an hour of work once it pops off the mold and it is basic compared to the ecf insert.

[IcePick06]

Originally Posted by cosmoZL1

Seriously? For real? Kills me to see these posts. Have you for one second stopped to think before writing this for other people to read? Do you know the difference between the production process on the Camaro and a Porsche? Do you pay 55k for a world class super car and expect the 100k build process? BUDGET SUPER CAR? How many times does a new Porsche owner go back to the dealer for these same complaints? Never? HAHAHAHA.. Yeah right.. All these posts about some imperfection or another in the car that is mass produced by people that live everyday lives too. We ALL have good days and bad days.. Then, the car is loaded on a TRAIN! Not a truck transport. The car sees how many different people prior to the dealer? This car is THEE Nicest car bar none at under 120k. AND SURPASSES MANY MANY cars that far exceed this cost. You get a problem take it to the dealer. Get it fixed. Discuss it here. Whatever, Before you post complaining about the car you paid 55k for, expecting some perfect dream car built by people that have no personal lives or faults? Think about it. Go buy that foriegn car. Then you can go complain about it on some other website.

Dude either YOU were drunk when you posted your response or you are just plain dyslexic. If you read my post I was basically saying the same damn thing you just did but in a different manner. I even through out names and gave props to the guys that built this car. I even said that I am not going to be overly anal about this car for little things like paint blemishes or interior panel pieces that are not 100% perfect because this car "is what it is" a great performance car built on a budget; I said this car is basically a "budget supercar" because it is!!! Nowhere in the world can you pay $55k and get the kind of performance the ZL1 has (unless you buy a base model GT500 maybe). However that doesn't mean the quality of the interior components or even the QC of all the parts used in the interior or exterior body panels are on par with more expensive foreign makes like Audi, BMW, and Porsche. Sure the guy in the market for a $55k BMW M3 may also look at the ZL1 and have to decide if it wants more quality materials and a more "polished" interior/exterior or if it wants more "bang for buck" performance. That is a decision the individual will have to make for themselves though. Sometimes we want to have our cake and eat it too, so some people may pay $55k for the ZL1 and expect BMW M3 quality materials and when they reach the final product in hand they may be somewhat disappointed. I for one was simply saying I am releasing my mind to not fall into this trap and sometimes I have to remind myself that I chose the latter option of "bang for buck" and not the "polished" quality of materials. Of course if one paid $55k to BMW or Audi or Porsche you will get a car with a nicer interior and better paint and body panels but you will get less performance for the money; obviously your $55k has to go somewhere--either performance or luxury. Sometimes a compromise of both is found in a car; the ZL1 may lean a little more towards the performance while an M3 I feel has a compromise of both luxury and performance. Hell go back and read other threads about the paint issues some have experienced on the ZL1 when they 1st arrived at the dealerships and some even complained on the 2010 Camaros. My paint had a few water spots on it where it looked like water drops from rain or melted ice sat too long and etched into the clear coat (probably from the QC holdup), also I found a few spots of overspray. But I haven't taken it to the dealership because it's only a few minor spots that you have to see up close and be looking for and I'd rather not have to give my car away to the dealership for "X" amount of days for something like minor like this.

and not to call Scott out for his response because Scott is the man . But any magazine review of the ZL1 (or even the more expensive CORVETTE for that matter) has commented once or twice that the interior components, paint, etc. on American performance cars aren't as "sharp" as those on Audi, BMW, and Porsche. It's just a fact--no two ways about it. The Viper was ridiculed for years for it's interior and SRT execs knew this and have listened in an effort to gain more customers in their target audience by supposedly refinining the interior of the 2013 Viper; in fact I read in a recent Road & Track issue that the interior on the 2013 Viper would rival that of Bentley (maybe an exaggeration) but it's nice to know American Performance cars are starting to match their foreign counterparts in the "quality" of materials department. My comment was simply calling out this "obvious" fact, some may think it's subjective, but I'm sure 99% of ZL1 owners (if they are being 100% honest with themselves and not brand loyalist) will agree that the interior, body panels & paint on our cars is not quite as polished or refined as those of the foreign (GERMAN) competition. But again who cares right? After all we didn't buy our ZL1's for the nicest paint, we bought them for cheap performance, if you realize that simple fact, you will not be disappointed and frustrated whenever notice a blemish on your paint or a flaw in the consistency on the painted plastic piece surrounding your shifter console (as I have). Yes, Scott I know that even Bentley screws up occasionally on paint or QC of components--everybody does--but even if a perfectly manufactured CAMARO was produced and a perfectly manufactured M3 was produced the "quality" of materials used on both products would be visually apparent and that was the only point I was simply trying to make along with the fact that an automaker has to choose between all out performance or luxury or find a compromise of both when producing a "sports car" in today's market. QC issues happen to EVERYBODY (some companies more than others of course) but the "quality" of materials is an entirely different subject so hopefully those that read my original post weren't confusing the two.

Cosmo, no offense bro but Obviously you are some die-hard guy with a mullet :flag2: and I have offended you , for that I DO NOT apologize because as I said before I am a "CAR ENTHUSIAST" first and will always call out negative things that I see from whatever car manufacturer (even if I support them at the end of the day and continue buying their products). We are all entitled to voice our opinions here and are encouraged too as that is what makes C5 such a great community; but in doing so we should all remember that at the end of the day we all love Camaros which is why we joined this forum in the 1st place--unless we are trolls (which I obviously am not as seen by my post count). My post was in no way an attack on GM because I have owned two Corvettes (including the 1st year C6 model) and bought a 2012 ZL1 knowing up front that Chevy produces "bang for buck" which implies that the paint, body panels, and interior pieces may not be as "nice" as those of our foreign competition.

If I may just offer a small piece of advice buddy: you should read a post in it's entirety a few times before making responses like YOU did...c'mon bro...get it together sorry for the long post but I had to clarify because I don't like people attacking my character, even if it is just the Internet...anyway hopefully we understand each other better now...it's all good here brotha

[cosmoZL1]

Originally Posted by IcePick06

Dude either YOU were drunk when you posted your response or you are just plain dyslexic. If you read my post I was basically saying the same damn thing you just did but in a different manner. I even through out names and gave props to the guys that built this car. I even said that I am not going to be overly anal about this car for little things like paint blemishes or interior panel pieces that are not 100% perfect because this car "is what it is" a great performance car built on a budget; I said this car is basically a "budget supercar" because it is!!! Nowhere in the world can you pay $55k and get the kind of performance the ZL1 has (unless you buy a base model GT500 maybe). However that doesn't mean the quality of the interior components or even the QC of all the parts used in the interior or exterior body panels are on par with more expensive foreign makes like Audi, BMW, and Porsche. Sure the guy in the market for a $55k BMW M3 may also look at the ZL1 and have to decide if it wants more quality materials and a more "polished" interior/exterior or if it wants more "bang for buck" performance. That is a decision the individual will have to make for themselves though. Sometimes we want to have our cake and eat it too, so some people may pay $55k for the ZL1 and expect BMW M3 quality materials and when they reach the final product in hand they may be somewhat disappointed. I for one was simply saying I am releasing my mind to not fall into this trap and sometimes I have to remind myself that I chose the latter option of "bang for buck" and not the "polished" quality of materials. Of course if one paid $55k to BMW or Audi or Porsche you will get a car with a nicer interior and better paint and body panels but you will get less performance for the money; obviously your $55k has to go somewhere--either performance or luxury. Sometimes a compromise of both is found in a car; the ZL1 may lean a little more towards the performance while an M3 I feel has a compromise of both luxury and performance. Hell go back and read other threads about the paint issues some have experienced on the ZL1 when they 1st arrived at the dealerships and some even complained on the 2010 Camaros. My paint had a few water spots on it where it looked like water drops from rain or melted ice sat too long and etched into the clear coat (probably from the QC holdup), also I found a few spots of overspray. But I haven't taken it to the dealership because it's only a few minor spots that you have to see up close and be looking for and I'd rather not have to give my car away to the dealership for "X" amount of days for something like minor like this.

and not to call Scott out for his response because Scott is the man . But any magazine review of the ZL1 (or even the more expensive CORVETTE for that matter) has commented once or twice that the interior components, paint, etc. on American performance cars aren't as "sharp" as those on Audi, BMW, and Porsche. It's just a fact--no two ways about it. The Viper was ridiculed for years for it's interior and SRT execs knew this and have listened in an effort to gain more customers in their target audience by supposedly refinining the interior of the 2013 Viper; in fact I read in a recent Road & Track issue that the interior on the 2013 Viper would rival that of Bentley (maybe an exaggeration) but it's nice to know American Performance cars are starting to match their foreign counterparts in the "quality" of materials department. My comment was simply calling out this "obvious" fact, some may think it's subjective, but I'm sure 99% of ZL1 owners (if they are being 100% honest with themselves and not brand loyalist) will agree that the interior, body panels & paint on our cars is not quite as polished or refined as those of the foreign (GERMAN) competition. But again who cares right? After all we didn't buy our ZL1's for the nicest paint, we bought them for cheap performance, if you realize that simple fact, you will not be disappointed and frustrated whenever notice a blemish on your paint or a flaw in the consistency on the painted plastic piece surrounding your shifter console (as I have). Yes, Scott I know that even Bentley screws up occasionally on paint or QC of components--everybody does--but even if a perfectly manufactured CAMARO was produced and a perfectly manufactured M3 was produced the "quality" of materials used on both products would be visually apparent and that was the only point I was simply trying to make along with the fact that an automaker has to choose between all out performance or luxury or find a compromise of both when producing a "sports car" in today's market. QC issues happen to EVERYBODY (some companies more than others of course) but the "quality" of materials is an entirely different subject so hopefully those that read my original post weren't confusing the two.

Cosmo, no offense bro but Obviously you are some die-hard guy with a mullet :flag2: and I have offended you , for that I DO NOT apologize because as I said before I am a "CAR ENTHUSIAST" first and will always call out negative things that I see from whatever car manufacturer (even if I support them at the end of the day and continue buying their products). We are all entitled to voice our opinions here and are encouraged too as that is what makes C5 such a great community; but in doing so we should all remember that at the end of the day we all love Camaros which is why we joined this forum in the 1st place--unless we are trolls (which I obviously am not as seen by my post count). My post was in no way an attack on GM because I have owned two Corvettes (including the 1st year C6 model) and bought a 2012 ZL1 knowing up front that Chevy produces "bang for buck" which implies that the paint, body panels, and interior pieces may not be as "nice" as those of our foreign competition.

If I may just offer a small piece of advice buddy: you should read a post in it's entirety a few times before making responses like YOU did...c'mon bro...get it together sorry for the long post but I had to clarify because I don't like people attacking my character, even if it is just the Internet...anyway hopefully we understand each other better now...it's all good here brotha

ok Mr Ice Lick, er I mean Ice drip, Uh Sorry Ice pic, I won't argue with someone whose driving gloves are obviously too tight. First of all, I will put my ZL1 up against any car made today. Unlike "you", who has read "TOO many magazines?", I hold my opinions until I have seen with my "own" two eyes, the car in question, NOT the drivel written by "just anyone" in any rag whose magazine survives on the advertising or availability of having cars to test in the first place. Secondly, Before anyone who pays a photographer to follow them around and claim to be so cool because the've had their picture taken tells me "I'm drunk" better at least have their facts straight and like your "I've read too many magazines" are as far off base as your "SPELLING" is. QUOTE "I even through out names and gave props to the guys that built this car." END QUOTE Were you trying to use words to "BIG" for your intellect? Or did you just read it in a magazine? Here let me help you "Brotha" T H R E W Threw. Meaning past tense as "He threw the dog a bone" Not "He through a dog a bone" Not to be confused with Throw Such as shown in the proper spelling. He did not "throw" the bone. Got it? Good. Next as for the "mullet" comment? I have never worn a "mullet". I spent 20 years as an Airborne Ranger in this UNITED STATES OF AMERICAS' ARMY!! Any more questions on me, or my personality should be taken directly from what I said,(written) Not from some stupid mental midget mind that can't spell correctly, or is it proper grammer? If there is "ANY" question as to the personality or "persona" of Ice drip should read the thread http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234487 Lastly "Brotha" I don't usually even respond to personal attacks here or anywhere on the internet. Consider yourself "SPECIAL" This will be your last address, unless you want my opinion on something I've seen with my own two eyes.

[razorz28]

Rodney King is yelling from his grave.......can't we all just get along.......

[cosmoZL1]

Originally Posted by RazorZL1

Rodney King is yelling from his grave.......can't we all just get along.......

My point exactly. All the negative crap on this site gets to me. Problems? Sure. Share them. Get solutions. To put down this or that is simply NEGATIVE. To call someone who doesn't even drink "drunk" or cast some aspersions on a stereotypical "haircut" worn by someone less educated or fortunate is "wrong" So is pointing out someones misspelling as I have shown. Negative. I simply wanted to point out the ludicrous nature of personal attacks. I can read an opinion of anyone who disagrees with me. Couldn't resist this fellow attempting to use his "superior" intellect to show how smart he is. I apologise to all the readers for my negative post.