Why turn off the "nannies" with normal driving?

[Au201]

Originally Posted by CamaroRS/SS10

I guess I'm just old school. I have never had a car drive for me or think for me. All my other Camaro's haven't had it. I have always had to drive my car by myself without help. I like having control of my car and turn it off every time I get in it. But as for some young kids or even people that don't have any driving skills it good for them. Not everyone can drive a car with that kind of horsepower without help. This is a way all drivers can drive fast cars.

You are so arrogant. But as that's an opinion, I won't pursue it further. What I will pursue, however, is your statement that "I have never had a car drive for me or think for me." The car is NOT driving or thinking for you until you do something that you should NOT be doing on public roads, with the exception of avoiding deer or some other unexpected event where these systems could very well save your life. I am all for turning them off on the track where it's a closed course and you have plenty of room for error and you are not endangering anyone but yourself. There is a time and place for everything. On the road with other people is not the time to act egotistical, show off, or to "be a man". Whether or not you can control the power is not the argument. I full well believe that you, as well as many other people, can control the power. But NOBODY can be prepared for anything and everything. Take for instance my "rocks on the road" post. I did not expect those rocks to be there as they were not present that very morning. Stabilitrack saved my car from damage. Let me say my intention was not to offend you or anyone else, and I'm sorry if I did.


Sent from my bragging iPhone using an app that encourages it.

[Mr pogo]

I like driving it mine in competition mode, from what Ive understand it firms up the shifts with an A6 and overall programming is more aggressive.
Ive only tried driving with everything off a couple times and didnt notice any drivetrain differences so CM it is for me.
maybe once I get used to the handling at the limits I'll try everything off mode.
fwiw my other car has summer tires, eaton posi with 400 lb springs and 373s so its slip and slide time anytime one wants, I do not drive it in the rain when possible

[MrWray]

you guys disable the TC when you drive your camaro?


OHHH MYYY GAWWWW!! WAAHHH!!




and if you dont like it,lean down and choke yourself

[OHIOSS]

Originally Posted by Camaro/ss/rs

Great question coz i turned mine off for a while today and it seemed crazy fast!

After reading the info on this thread it must not be true that the engine output is reduced when the safety stuff is on. It sures feels that way to me too.

[OldScoolCamaro]

...barely street legal was the original slogan. They weren't foolin, and neither is this ride. The traction control and stabiltrak do not always cut in when suppossed to. And for those who know how, really know how to drive it on the edge it's no biggie. It's a handful, and a blast no doubt, but it will bite you if you are not on your game.

[MrWray]

Originally Posted by OHIOSS

After reading the info on this thread it must not be true that the engine output is reduced when the safety stuff is on. It sures feels that way to me too.

it feels that way to me too, it doesnt feel as responsive with the nannies on

[OhioGuy89]

I've never turned off the TC - I don't even know how to!! There is no reason to. I don't need to turn off the TC to 'be a man' or show that 'I know how to drive a car' etc., etc.

Originally Posted by CamaroRS/SS10

I guess I'm just old school. I have never had a car drive for me or think for me. All my other Camaro's haven't had it. I have always had to drive my car by myself without help. I like having control of my car and turn it off every time I get in it. But as for some young kids or even people that don't have any driving skills it good for them. Not everyone can drive a car with that kind of horsepower without help. This is a way all drivers can drive fast cars.

And since when did driving SMARTLY by having TC on mean that people "don't have any driving skills"? This is one of the most arrogant things I've ever read.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by The Stig

I agree completely. But I view it the same as I view motorcycle drivers who don't wear a helmet when they ride.

Umm, not quite.

A helmet is passive protection. Always there doing exactly the same thing all of the time. It's more like seat belts and a rigid passenger compartment.

Nannies are active systems that are intended to insert vehicle control actions not commanded by the driver.


Nannies aren't perfect. Every once in a while, they do get things a bit wrong. Adding its programmed correction to what an experienced driver is already doing is potentially as bad as neither of you doing anything, and the instance reported in this thread is not the first time I've heard of that happening.

I've personally experienced a stability control cut power and drag a brake at cornering levels well below the point where any reduction in speed or course correction by either the driver or the ESC would be warranted. This is not something that you want your car suddenly deciding to do when you're only a couple hundred feet from merging into 60 mph traffic. I've also been through a brief but very difficult winter highway situation - no other traffic around - that an active nanny might well have put me sideways into a Jersey barrier.

If I didn't have 50 years worth of driving where at most one minor incident might have been avoided by having a nanny (had it even been available, that is), and if I didn't know that my wife has been incident-free for over 40, I might be more inclined to accept these systems. But as it stands, there is ample evidence that both of us have managed to keep our driving within our own limits and the limits of our cars, roads, and weather conditions. Personal responsibility. It was the prevailing attitude of the time that YOU were responsible, and this applied to more than just driving a motor vehicle. Life itself was taught with that in mind.

At this point in time, there is no reason to expect our attitudes or our driving to change. But the nannies don't give credit for either experience or attitudes through upbringing; they strap exactly the same "training wheels" on all of us, against today's attitudes as a backdrop.


I'll put in a pitch for autocrossing as a means of developing car control and brake and throttle modulation skills at speeds consistent with street driving. You might even manage to wean yourself away from early-apexing Interstate ramp curves (where you may sometimes find yourself headed too close to the outside curb shortly thereafter).


Just as one last item, the way you'd drive to extract the greatest benefit from the nannies is sometimes exactly the wrong thing to do if the nanny was to suddenly go MIA. The best example I can think of offhand is where you're taught to stomp on and hold the brakes with ABS - which is generally the worst thing you could do if the ABS was inop for any reason or you were driving a car old enough to not have it. However unlikely such situations might be, it's better than nice to know that you can properly deal with them.


Norm

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by OhioGuy89

I've never turned off the TC - I don't even know how to!! There is no reason to. I don't need to turn off the TC to 'be a man' or show that 'I know how to drive a car' etc., etc.

Just be aware that you may experience greater rear brake pad wear without ever knowing that the TC was intervening.

It's not about "manliness", bragging, or the showing off of anything. It's about being able to consistently drive safely and within the limits of skill, vehicle, and conditions all by yourself. Please read my previous post, this can be done. I'd be ashamed of myself if I could not, and my parents would have felt ashamed that they hadn't been able to teach me any better.

And since when did driving SMARTLY by having TC on mean that people "don't have any driving skills"? This is one of the most arrogant things I've ever read.

You aren't nearly old enough to fully realize that cars - even powerful cars - really can be driven safely without any nannies active (or even present). You'd have to experience it first hand, and learn to rely on your own situational awareness and self-control. You're only fooling yourself if you think that those of us who drive with the nannies off are always turning them off so we can do burnouts, donuts, and drifting.

Leaving TC on can rob you of important information at exactly the times it would be most useful. The safest way I can think of, of finding out that the road is slippery is when it's hard to get the car going from a stop. That should reset your mental attitude to "jeez, it's really slick out there" and make you drive accordingly. That TC makes it easier to get going caters to people whose overall driving skills could be improved in at least this respect.


Norm

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

You might even manage to wean yourself away from early-apexing Interstate ramp curves (where you may sometimes find yourself headed too close to the outside curb shortly thereafter).

Good point... and illustrative of the fact that most people who think they know how to drive don't, because almost everybody does that. And since most people don't really know how to drive, its best they leave their systems on.

As a person who daily drove a Buick Grand National through Ohio winters (and lived to tell about it) I've had enough unwanted drama to last a lifetime and am thankful for the systems on my Camaro which all but eliminate those "oh, shit!" moments.

[MrWray]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Just be aware that you may experience greater rear brake pad wear without ever knowing that the TC was intervening.

It's not about "manliness", bragging, or the showing off of anything. It's about being able to consistently drive safely and within the limits of skill, vehicle, and conditions all by yourself. Please read my previous post, this can be done. I'd be ashamed of myself if I could not, and my parents would have felt ashamed that they hadn't been able to teach me any better.



You aren't nearly old enough to fully realize that cars - even powerful cars - really can be driven safely without any nannies active (or even present). You'd have to experience it first hand, and learn to rely on your own situational awareness and self-control. You're only fooling yourself if you think that those of us who drive with the nannies off are always turning them off so we can do burnouts, donuts, and drifting.

Leaving TC on can rob you of important information at exactly the times it would be most useful. The safest way I can think of, of finding out that the road is slippery is when it's hard to get the car going from a stop. That should reset your mental attitude to "jeez, it's really slick out there" and make you drive accordingly. That TC makes it easier to get going caters to people whose overall driving skills could be improved in at least this respect.


Norm

great posts Norm, you hit the nail on the head. like ove stated before,if people want to rely on these systems then more power to them, some of these people rely on these systems so much that they are totally dependant on them like a security blanket. what did we do back before there was no such thing as traction control? we drove the car just like we do today. ive never relied on a computer to operate a vehicle for me, and i dont intend on starting now, im perfectly capable of doing it myself "safely". its pretty asinine how some of these guys stereotype and try to insult those of us that dont use the nannies because we dont share their same frame of thought. they act like the car cant function properly without it,lol

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Au201

. . . many other people, can control the power. But NOBODY can be prepared for anything and everything. Take for instance my "rocks on the road" post. I did not expect those rocks to be there as they were not present that very morning. Stabilitrack saved my car from damage.

I'm not at all sure that you can separate any benefit of ST intervention from at least one front tire running past the rocks onto clear pavement and getting the necessary grip to get you suddenly turned. ST is not magic, and it cannot create grip where little or none exists. That said, perhaps it did keep you out of a "tank-slapper". We'll probably never know.

As the years and miles add up, you do become "prepared" for a wider range of occurrences/surprises. If you've been paying attention along the way.


Norm

[awfarley]

Originally Posted by Deki

Because no real man needs no computer to tell him how to do something or when to do it. That's why I turn that shit off, pull a pin on a hand grenade, and just let it roll around in my passenger seat. Nothing better and manlier then a live M67 rolling around next to you while driving around with the nannies off.

I laughed out loud literally.

[Revenant]

*standing ovation* for Mr. Peterson, I couldn't have put it any better.

Thanks Norm.