torn between the ZL1 or 1LE

[Blueclyde]

Originally Posted by 130R

You are VERY, VERY wrong about your assumptions. NO-ONE in this thread said the ZL1 was crap, or the people that purchased them idiots.

The ZL1 is an amazing FACTORY car! But the truth is, any car under $100K is going to be pretty easy to improve upon simply because factory cars are sold for the masses, and the masses are more concerned with image and comfort. Because of that, factory cars, even performance cars, come with compliant spring rates, bushings and sway bars in order to meet their comfort and NVH criteria. The aftermarket will almost always provide higher performance parts with the sacrifice being noise and ride quality.

The ZL1 will always drive better than a modded SS or 1LE. The ZL1 will always have more street credibility and be held in higher regard than an SS or 1lE. The ZL1 will very likely hold its value better and be more collectible than an SS or 1LE.

No-one is an idiot for buying a ZL1, just don't be so naive to believe that an SS or 1LE can't be built to match, or out perform, a stock ZL1 for less money without factory cost concerns and NVH limitations.

Besides on the street, the difference would be negligible. On a road course or auto-x is where the modded 1LE would have a slight edge, and it would be a small enough edge that the better driver will take the checkers…

I somewhat see what you are trying to say but think you are a little short with what you are saying. For the money, I think the 1LE is the value. If it were available when I got my Z I might have gone that way. If the 2014 styling and Ricaros were available I no doubt would have gone that way. Where I'm losing you is the current gap between the ZL1 and 1LE is still fairly substantial. I think it was something like 4 seconds at Lightning Lap last year. That's a fairly significant margin to overcome. In addition, the ZL1 has much better brakes than the SS all day. Put a no tune CAI on a manual trans ZL1 and you are easily at 525 rwhp, with gobs of torque than a header/cam LS3 will not have.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Msmall143

Where are people getting ideas that the only upside is a warranty.

A 1le is an ss with a suspension package and a wheel tire upgrade. A zl1 is a completely different car.

I am really getting confused as to why people think a ss with a $3500 option is out performing a zl1!

In most cornering situations (where there is not any significant bumpiness) and braking (up to the point of fade), the ZL1 is at best tied. Of course it'll run away and hide from the 1LE once the road straightens out again.

If you look a little deeper into the Lightning Laps comparison data, you'll see that the 1LE is a very good bang for the buck - and this holds true whether you're looking at this on a car cost basis or on a price-independent power to weight basis. For reference, the more top-end oriented GT500 is less efficient at generating its lap times than either the ZL1 or the 1LE regardless of whether you're looking at a cost or a power to weight basis.


Blueclyde - that the 1LE manages almost 98% of the ZL1's VIR lap performance on a course that has significant stretches that favor pure HP is huge when you consider that comes at only 2/3 the price and barely more than 3/4 of the power to weight. Brute force still wins, but by a closer margin than power to weight suggests should be the case.

Originally Posted by Msmall143

Yes, a lighter car stops faster....if the brakes and rotors are the same....which they are not.

Road & Track consistently found braking distances for the ZL1 to be longer than for the 1LE. Up toward 10 feet longer from their standard test speed for braking IIRC.


Norm

[usmc-ashton]

woah a lot of responses! lol thanks everyone for your input.
after carefully considering both cars the ZL1 payments looks to be a little too high. i can wing it but id like to have some spending money at the end of the day lol.
im gonna lean more towards the 1LE and make the purchase in the coming months. will deff keep you guys posted and post up some pictures.
again thanks for all of your comments and helping me decide wisely!
in the mean time ill go test drive it AGAIN at my local dealership lol

[Norm Peterson]

Put some of the difference in payments towards a track day every so often.


Norm

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by 130R

Sorry, but you guys are out of your minds…

Go ahead and add 100HP. Now you'll have too much HP to come out of the corners well.

The bigger brakes on the ZL1 don't stop it faster. They're simply there to reduce brake fade. Brakes stop the wheels, tires stop the car. With equal tires on both cars, the lighter car stops shorter…

As for building the car, I've done it, but with an SS. I put a supercharger on it, but if I were to do it again, I'd go NA with a cam.

I have $10K in parts (did all the work myself). I have over 600 HP. The car when corner-balanced weighed 3700 pounds with 1/2 tank of gas (Vs 4120 pounds for a ZL1). I consistently brake and hit peak lateral loads of 1.2g (essentially the limit of street tires).

I've driven the car HARD for 2 years and 36,000 miles without issue.

It's nowhere as difficult, nor as expensive as you'd like to think...

+1 If you are building for the track FI big HP is not ideal. What you can do is a small pulley with no other LS3 mods and get 500 manageable RWHP with the only power mod being the centrifugal supercharger (or single turbo for that matter). Both have similar power delivery that is less abrupt than other SC types. And the centrifugal at least does not add to LS heat soak. So if you start with a 1SS 1LE and simply add FI, you have a car that will run with a stock ZL1 on any track straight or curved.

But if road racing competency is the car goal, then I think adding a CAI and LTs along with some carefully selected suspension mods would allow the 1LE to run with stock ZL1s on a road track. Racing at 8+ tenths on a road track requires more than average competency even with 380 RWHP. So if you go big and you are not experienced, go to class.

If you want a 4 seat car that does everything well, road racing, drag strip, and cruising with a warranty the ZL1 is hard to beat. If you are looking for a pure track car the 1LE is the better choice. Especially if you like modding. And if you mod carefully you can spend less and get the same performance with equal reliability. What you will not get with a modded 1LE is a drive train warranty and a nice ride when you are not racing.

[Msmall143]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

In most cornering situations (where there is not any significant bumpiness) and braking (up to the point of fade), the ZL1 is at best tied. Of course it'll run away and hide from the 1LE once the road straightens out again.

If you look a little deeper into the Lightning Laps comparison data, you'll see that the 1LE is a very good bang for the buck - and this holds true whether you're looking at this on a car cost basis or on a price-independent power to weight basis. For reference, the more top-end oriented GT500 is less efficient at generating its lap times than either the ZL1 or the 1LE regardless of whether you're looking at a cost or a power to weight basis.


Blueclyde - that the 1LE manages almost 98% of the ZL1's VIR lap performance on a course that has significant stretches that favor pure HP is huge when you consider that comes at only 2/3 the price and barely more than 3/4 of the power to weight. Brute force still wins, but by a closer margin than power to weight suggests should be the case.



Road & Track consistently found braking distances for the ZL1 to be longer than for the 1LE. Up toward 10 feet longer from their standard test speed for braking IIRC.


Norm

My point was simple. A 1le is a factory modded ss. Even when I had one it was a bit frustrating at times when people thought or spoke of it as a completely different car. You hear "is that the ss?" Followed by "no, it's a 1le"....wrong! Anyone can buy an ss and make it the same as a 1le with with little investment (assuming your not buying wheels from gm). The 1le is still an ss. As a matter of fact you can buy the 1le suspension upgrade and add it to an ss and still maintain factory warranty.

So this thread is really still the basic ss vs zl1 topic. The only difference is with a 1le the cars coming with some factory mods.

I love both cars and think both are good values. The 1le package may be the best bang for your buck performance option available from any car manufacturer. You can't go wrong with either.

[el ess A]

Originally Posted by Msmall143

Your right... What was I thinking? It's clear to me now that if you put a sc on an ss it's better than a zl1. Thanks

If only I would have known this when I OWNED my 1LE. Owning both I don't know how I could have possibly missed the fact that all I needed to do is add a SC to convert my 1le to a zl1 killer.

Ohs noes! You fell into the sh*t trap! Don't bother arguing with someone that doesn't know.



You buy what you can afford. They say if you can afford a ZL1 you can afford a C7 Z51. So what?

I bought a ZL1 because that's what I wanted. I don't recall ever asking anyone's permission to buy it. I wouldn't turn down a free C7, but it's not on my "gotta have" list. The ZL1 was. I paid GM to put mods on my Camaro.

The 1LE is an option package on an SS, like a sunroof or RS package. It's a fine package for sure and if I didn't already have sights on a ZL1 'vert I'd have considered a 1LE, but no troll statements like the one's I've read in this thread make me shake in my boots to fear any 1LE, modded or not.

If that's what floats your boat, while you're in your garage puttin' all that crap on your 1LE, I'll be out burning rubber and gas in my ZL1 and drinking a beer or two at happy hour with some friends. Or I could come over and drink some of your beers while I watch you wrench on your car. Your call.

I just don't get it. We should be celebrating ALL Camaro models (I didn't say colors. That magenta is just horrible). I'd love to be able to afford a DD like maybe a LS or 1LT. Camaros are just plain fun to drive.

[2012-1822]

Originally Posted by 130R

You are VERY, VERY wrong about your assumptions. NO-ONE in this thread said the ZL1 was crap, or the people that purchased them idiots.

No I'm not. Read the whole thread. There are things implied.

Plus, my bad, should have put this in my post . Now, can we be friends again?

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by 130R

And let's be honest here, the prestige of the ZL1 moniker, the limited numbers, the instant recognisability and street credibility has value, and comes with a price premium… You can't ignore or discount that...

Maybe if you have a preference for "sleeper" cars that perform well above what their appearance suggests you can.

Not that I'd ever want to drive at 315 kph in that brick of a Mitsubishi that somebody dared give a horse-y name to.


Norm

[ZED SLED]

While throwing on that ZL1 killing SC for cheap don't forget to add the LSA's hypereutectic pistons, piston oil squirters, crank with 8 bolt flange. For M6s you'll also need the M39 upgrade on the Tremec 6060 and dual clutch, not to mention the cast iron center diff section with half shafts the diameter of coke cans. I know there's a lot of bad ass blown LS3s and L99s out there, but for me, I went with the reliability of the ZL1 rather than dumping even more money into my SS. And...I have not yet experienced the SC rattle or diff grown or any other issues.

[PoorMansCamaro]

[PalmerGA]

If money were no object... ZL1, hands down. No contest!

[PoorMansCamaro]

^only issue with that, is not everyone can install everything they buy for their car.

[StoutSnout]

Originally Posted by 130R

So there you have it, facts is facts, and facts and physics beats assumptions, conjecture and innuendo, just as badly as a properly modified 1LE will beat a stock ZL1, for less money…

See you at the track…

Have a nice day…

Fixed it for you.

If the heavily modified SS 1LE breaks, it's on the owner's dime to get it fixed. Also, if the owner needs/wants to sell the 1LE, they have a 37k-- car and 12k in parts. After all, facts is facts