Motor Trends Best Driver's Car Competition 2009

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by chicagojoe16

Let's have a test where we decide on the best soda brand...but instead of doing anything useful I'll just list them in the order I like them. How enjoyable is it to drive the Miata when you're staring at 9 hot cars from behind?

unfortunately thats what this test was about... except the soda part

[levi1922]

Originally Posted by Mosher

Miata is fine. All the cars in this review are fine. The problem I have is they try to Quantify what is really just there opinion, with numbers gained at the track. Simple fix would be to have 2 ratings, 1.) is what place the car was at the track, and then 2.) what car they "LIKED" the most. Trying to use some funky graph and say that the ZR1 is not as good as the 5 cars above it when it Molly wopped everything there, just because they don't like it, is the crux of the problem.

It's a bit like telling Lance Armstrong that, well, he will be 6th not 1st in the tour de france because he looks funny riding the bike and all he did was go fast in the straights.

In the end, it just goes to show that, the most important thing you can do when contemplating buying a new car is take it for a spin. YOUR judgement on what is good and bad is the most important. They are not going to be paying that bill every month.

Originally Posted by camaro_corvette

So according to this particular graph, they only found above average statistics on only three of these ten utterly amazing cars!

Wait, I take that back, the Caddilac CTS-V got one above average rating.


Their full of crap, I would proudly drive any of those eight cars...( I don't like what GT500s look like, and the miata aint doing it for me.) Thanks for wasting my life motor trend...

im not totally sure what they were using as a bench mark for all of these, since most of these great cars did, as you said, get below average. and how the interior of the MX5 beat the CTSV, hmmm....

Originally Posted by shnomac77

I did not know you had to like every car on the road to be a "automotive/driving fan".....

i dont think he meant like every car, i think he was reffereing to acknowledging the facts about how certain cars handle and such, but i do see what you mean, i know theres a few that i dont like, and i consider my self to be an automotive/driving fan

[2cnd chance]

Said it before and I'll say it again, the Camaro needs a "Track Pack" (how about a "Z/28 Pack")!

Someone said it's a "Muscle Car" hence the handling, yeah it is, but it's 2010 and "Muscle Cars" can handle like "Sports Cars".

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Said it before and I'll say it again, the Camaro needs a "Track Pack" (how about a "Z/28 Pack")!

Z/28

[rodimus prime]

Originally Posted by Kurt_OH

The people bashing it are the same people to scream as soon as any statement complimenting another car is made, or any statement discussing an imperfection of the Camaro is made.

These AREN'T "automotive/driving fans".

Nobody here said the Camaro is perfect.

Originally Posted by shnomac77

The Camaro did out perform those cars... but thats not what this test was about.

Which leads me to the question of why bother to take them out in the first place. You could sit in the sumbitchs and decide which you like best.

You think if they took the badges off the inside and masked up the outsides so you couldnt tell what you were driving that the outcomes would of been the same? Do you really think they would of judged the mazda to have a better interior than they caddy if they didnt know which was which?

Laughable.

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by rodimus prime

Which leads me to the question of why bother to take them out in the first place. You could sit in the sumbitchs and decide which you like best.

I agree 100%

[AngryAmish]

I kind of agree with you, but if its not a performance test, why not get average joes to test the cars and do the write up based on their feedback instead of a professional driver?

Not to split hairs, but how do you quantify "driver confidence?" I hate to pick on the Miata, But I don't feel comfortable or confident in a car small enough to be a speed bump to a '84 Chevy Pick-up. Doesn't mean its a bad car, it just means its not the car for me. The CTS-V is my ideal car, but I'd never know that from reading the article. It just seems so much more logical and interesting to put people in these cars that have never driven them before and get an unprofessional opinion if you are going to go the route of subjectiveness.

Originally Posted by garagelogic

Did some of you actually read the article, or did you just scan the participating cars and where they were ranked? If you took the time to read the article, the author said up front that this particular comparison was not a traditional “best overall performance” or “best handling” documentation. They said, and I quote:



I don’t think there is anyone out there who will argue that the Corvette ZR1 would win any performance test, hands down over the rest of the cars in the field, nor would anyone ever think that a GT500 would even compare favorably, let alone place ahead of that car on any track. But then again, this was not a “best performance car” article; it was a best driver’s car article.

Using the quote above, the ZR1 scored a 6th place finish in this compare because apparently, despite its awesomeness, it failed to inspire driver confidence or ergonomic delight. While we all recognize the performance that comes with a ZR1, I doubt there are very many of us that would feel comfortable getting behind the wheel of that car for the first time and trying to reach its potential. IMO, I think that’s what they were trying to say when they referenced driver confidence.

Then there is the issue of ergonomic comfort, which is probably 90% subjective, at least. I can see where they are coming from here, as well. While many here don’t mind or even like the design and layout of the Gen5 interior, I would hazard to guess that a majority of people who are not Camaro enthusiasts would have issues with it. Let’s face it, when the GT500’s first hit the showrooms, the interior design and materials were its biggest shortcoming, yet die-hard Mustang/Shelby guys reacted much like Gen5 owners do now and said things like “it’s not that bad” or “I didn’t but the car for its interior”, etc. However, the average person who did not have a special affection for the car tended to point out the interior as a shortcoming.

If you will just view the article for what it is, you will see that getting all bent out of shape for where a particular car is placed should not be an issue. If you feel anything less than a straight up performance comparison is stupid, then this particular article will only serve to make you angry.

Life’s too short to get riled up over any vehicle, let alone a magazine article that might have placed whatever beloved nameplate you prefer in a less-than-flattering light.

[AngryAmish]

Again...
If its supposed to be about the best "drivers car", what does the hands of a non expert have to do with anything? They can't have it both ways and not expect to take S*** for it.

Originally Posted by Operator

Oh, and as to the ZR1.. if you watch the video from the track driver... he says it's awesome but very raw, and that in the hands of a non-expert it would be difficult to drive as quickly as say... the R8. That's probably why it scored the way it did. Remember, this was a "Best Drivers Car" comparison, not "Best Car" or "Fastest Car" or "Best Car for the Money" so it's all relative to what you (they) are reviewing in these cars...

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by garagelogic

While we all recognize the performance that comes with a ZR1, I doubt there are very many of us that would feel comfortable getting behind the wheel of that car for the first time and trying to reach its potential.

OK, now I understand the article. It was Motor Trends first time inside the Zr1 so they were scared of its raw power and felt uncomfortable and gave it a low rating...lol... Gimme a break..

Originally Posted by gred04

A lot of whinners here that didnt bother to READ the article. They said it was going to be based on the MT staff's subjective feelings with a little bit of feedback from the pro driver. Further the field was dictated by new for 09 sports ( sporty ) cars.

This was a stupid idea as everyone can agree and not much value for any reader/buyer.

However, take out the sedans, perform a real overall performance test ( handling and lap times using all professional drivers ) and the Camaro still loses pretty big against this field IMO.

The Camaro is a great looking muscle/SPORTY car with a sweet engine. Most reviews that I've read all pretty much say the same thing. Needs some additional work to be considered a sports car.

And how many miles have you driven the Camaro SS stick to come up with that conclusion? I have over 1,000.. Use all professional drivers and have a real overall performance test and the Camaro ranks above a lot of the cars in the tests.. And yes, the Camaro is a muscle car first and has enough class to be considered a sports car as well considering it does very well on the track..

[serge]

OK, so MT's Best Driver's Comparative, pro drivers and most of mags are showing us that Camaro handles like a pig and shows the worst understeer seen in years. Is there a solution to this problem? Perhaps high quality coilovers, thicker sway bars, stickier tires, stronger bushings...? This is my next car period, but all these negative reviews are keeping me from pulling the trigger. I'm not asking a 3,900 lb. car to handle like an Elise at the track, but c'mon, just watch the video and experience that nasty understeer and those tires howling and begging for mercy! Unacceptable!

[GTengineer]

Why do people continue to read this garbage magazine??

[Kurt_OH]

Originally Posted by rodimus prime

Nobody here said the Camaro is perfect.

Nobody said monkeys can fly, either. So what? Are you making a list of everything people didn't say?

Or, were you INcorrectly implying that I claimed someone DID say that?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

It seems that the Camaro goes like stink, even stock; stops very well (once, anyway - no way those fat rotors stopping that fat car survive more than a few challenging stops/laps before they're useless); turns well for an everyday car, but it's handling isn't very crisp and has a gob of understeer.

If those performance specs are what you're looking for, then a Camaro is great for you. If you don't mind modding, and a hard ride, then don't worry as much about the handling - it can be very good for < $5k (figure coilover kit, sway bars, bushings, decent tires/rims).

But, comparing STOCK cars, that massive understeers sucks if you like to play in the curves. It's NO fun. That's why the Camaro was spanked in the test. Well, that and it was almost the slowest anyway . . . always in the rear of the pack.

[Tim Adams]

You can't take anything MT writes seriously. Remember, this is a magazine that awarded Car of the Year to the Renault Alliance back in the early 80's!!!!

[third1]

Who the F##k cares if you like the car ,fine.If you don't, fine . I happen to like mine and I doubt it will ever see track time.