A post I was hoping to not have to make (GM blocks L3 engine warranty repair) - Page 7 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Elite Engineering · 05-06-2016, 12:36 PM

GM DOES have the burden to prove the modification or service was the direct cause to the failure in question. That is US law period.

The issue is the dealer is being a bully and has not been taken to task by a atty versed in the Magnasun/Moss act of 1975. It covers all in question here, and a simple letter from one of these law firms should be enough:

http://www.mlmlaw.com/library/guides...s/undermag.htm

This is a condensed version pertaining to the law:

https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/article...ne-maintenance

The dealer may be trying to "double dip" and get you to pay AND collect from GM. This is rare, but occurs and is hard for GM to police.

Unless you installed a breather or a "vented" type catchcan/tank, than they have no grounds to deny your claim, especially as it is such a wide spread issue with these engines (do a Google search and find hundreds of failures of oil pumps) and if you have a closed system catchcan such as any of the Elite systems, then it is impossible for it to have any impact on oil pressure or the oil pumps failure.

You have done alot of good work, but time to search for a law firm versed in the Magnasun/Moss act and at least get a letter going out. DO NOT let this dealer bully you, you have the federal law and FTC on your side.

Let us know if we can of more assistance.

two_wheel_mayhem · 05-06-2016, 12:54 PM

I think it just proves that everything in life has to be difficult, and it's worth fighting over because it's a lot of money, but doesn't it just figure? BTW if it came to it I would never pay them for an engine, I'd take my stuff out of the dealer in boxes and have my engine fixed, it's not disposable like a dealer would think.

Warranty work is tricky because they never take your word for anything. Of course they ran your engine, they had to diagnose the problem. No skin off their back, they don't fix engines they replace them. Here's a good way to solve an LS3 oil pump failure without having to buy a new engine.

If the low oil pressure warning comes on, shut the engine off and have it towed somewhere, then A, fix it yourself or B tell the service facility to push it in and tear it down because you are paying whether you are wrong or right. And, don't use the freakin' dealer.

Some warranty work just isn't worth the hassle.

Mr. Stacy · 05-06-2016, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edmonds.com

The saving grace for consumers is the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975. The act states that a dealer must prove that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage.

When I worked at a dealership, we were paid by GM for warranty work. No dealer I know of would purposefully deny or otherwise discourage warranty work. It's all work to them. Work = money. No real incentive for the dealer to deny the claim. Look to who is paying and you will see GM.

Superman09 · 05-06-2016, 01:40 PM

Thanks for the encouragement guys. I am assuming it is the oil pump that failed based solely on my own research. Neither the dealer nor GM has said what failed, only that the catch can caused the failure. I have an Elite catch can that was installed correctly. So, it's not like it's some thrown together ebay special or homemade job. The car was not making any abnormal noises when it left my possession. I have been working on cars my entire life and was a mechanic professionally for a few years and know what to listen for. The only way for me to find out if the engine is making noise is to put a new oil pump on, reassemble the engine, and fire it up. Unfortunately, in doing that I almost guarantee that GM and the dealer will wash their hands of any fault due to me doing to the reassembly. I could take it to another shop but that would cost money that may or may not help me in the long run and could also tie the shop up in an legal proceedings that they may or may not want to be involved in. A couple of shops I have spoken to don't want to get involved since it has already been torn apart and they don't want to put together someone else's problem. My current financial situation is either repair the car depending on what that is, or hire a lawyer. And unfortunately the car needs to be running as my 1980 scout is barely road worthy and I don't really like driving it by myself let alone with my two kids in it. I am going to do some more research and reading and will try to keep this updated. I really appreciate the kind words. This whole situation really feels like a kick in the nuts but the comradery in the Camaro family is great.

Ledzepx · 05-06-2016, 01:45 PM

We got your back.
Good luck.
Wish I had some parts to send you.

Mr. Stacy · 05-06-2016, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superman09

Thanks for the encouragement guys. I am assuming it is the oil pump that failed based solely on my own research. Neither the dealer nor GM has said what failed, only that the catch can caused the failure. I have an Elite catch can that was installed correctly. So, it's not like it's some thrown together ebay special or homemade job. The car was not making any abnormal noises when it left my possession. I have been working on cars my entire life and was a mechanic professionally for a few years and know what to listen for. The only way for me to find out if the engine is making noise is to put a new oil pump on, reassemble the engine, and fire it up. Unfortunately, in doing that I almost guarantee that GM and the dealer will wash their hands of any fault due to me doing to the reassembly. I could take it to another shop but that would cost money that may or may not help me in the long run and could also tie the shop up in an legal proceedings that they may or may not want to be involved in. A couple of shops I have spoken to don't want to get involved since it has already been torn apart and they don't want to put together someone else's problem. My current financial situation is either repair the car depending on what that is, or hire a lawyer. And unfortunately the car needs to be running as my 1980 scout is barely road worthy and I don't really like driving it by myself let alone with my two kids in it. I am going to do some more research and reading and will try to keep this updated. I really appreciate the kind words. This whole situation really feels like a kick in the nuts but the comradery in the Camaro family is great.

Hang in there buddy. We got your back, whatever help that is to you.

GM is throwing you under the bus and it is not right. Maybe we could start a petition or something? I think GM should value their enthusiast following, if not we can only make them pay by hitting them wear it hurts.

Catch can my ass.

Mr. Stacy · 05-06-2016, 02:27 PM

You could use some immediate relief.

College Station is right between Houston, Dallas, Austin... Weekend coming. Can we organize a rally/protest for real with some of our Texas members? I'd be there in a heartbeat if it was my neighborhood. Dealership would s**t bricks if a bunch of pissed off Camaro people showed up to disrupt their little sales games

Mr. Stacy · 05-06-2016, 02:37 PM

I only see one Chevy dealership in College Station, Tom Light. Sterling is GMC. Where did you purchase the car?

Moto-Mojo · 05-06-2016, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ledzepx

Alot of good advice here.

Except that it ranges from, 'yer fooked' to 'quit whining and fix it yourself' to 'man up and lawyer up' to 'petition GM' to 'picket the GM dealer' to 'you'll spend more fighting it than fixing it' to 'a forum coalition' that will hit 'em the pocketbook.

So, which of that "good advice" is it?

JLSuperfly · 05-06-2016, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moto-Mojo

Except that it ranges from, 'yer fooked' to 'quit whining and fix it yourself' to 'man up and lawyer up' to 'petition GM' to 'picket the GM dealer' to 'you'll spend more fighting it than fixing it' to 'a forum coalition' that will hit 'em the pocketbook.

So, which of that "good advice" is it?

I like the picket the GM dealer.

Superman09 · 05-06-2016, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Stacy

I only see one Chevy dealership in College Station, Tom Light. Sterling is GMC. Where did you purchase the car?

I purchased the car from Team Auto in Navasota. But it is at Sterling cause that's where GM roadside took it as it was the closest dealer to my house. As others have said, this car was a 7 year journey. I love this car and want nothing more than for it up and running again.

Sent from my campfire using smoke signals

Mr. Stacy · 05-06-2016, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moto-Mojo

Except that it ranges from, 'yer fooked' to 'quit whining and fix it yourself' to 'man up and lawyer up' to 'petition GM' to 'picket the GM dealer' to 'you'll spend more fighting it than fixing it' to 'a forum coalition' that will hit 'em the pocketbook.

So, which of that "good advice" is it?

Just mine.

Seriously, we do have a little clout here. And in truth, this affects all of us.

Even a few respondents, driving Camaro's back and forth honking horns or whatnot could create the needed attention. I have gotten Seattle network news stations to respond to three different issues I raised that are far less intriguing to GP than GM refusing to honor their warranty on a technicality.

JMHO

MrChrisLS3 · 05-06-2016, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elite Engineering

GM DOES have the burden to prove the modification or service was the direct cause to the failure in question. That is US law period.

The issue is the dealer is being a bully and has not been taken to task by a atty versed in the Magnasun/Moss act of 1975. It covers all in question here, and a simple letter from one of these law firms should be enough:

http://www.mlmlaw.com/library/guides...s/undermag.htm

This is a condensed version pertaining to the law:

https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/article...ne-maintenance

The dealer may be trying to "double dip" and get you to pay AND collect from GM. This is rare, but occurs and is hard for GM to police.

Unless you installed a breather or a "vented" type catchcan/tank, than they have no grounds to deny your claim, especially as it is such a wide spread issue with these engines (do a Google search and find hundreds of failures of oil pumps) and if you have a closed system catchcan such as any of the Elite systems, then it is impossible for it to have any impact on oil pressure or the oil pumps failure.

You have done alot of good work, but time to search for a law firm versed in the Magnasun/Moss act and at least get a letter going out. DO NOT let this dealer bully you, you have the federal law and FTC on your side.

Let us know if we can of more assistance.

I really have to wonder, if the dealership actually put one mile on an engine that came in with zero oil pressure...Did they try and drive the car to see if the valve would unstick, write up a repair that wasn't performed, give you the car back, and charge GM? Then, when the inevitable happed, in order to cover up their f-up, are claiming the catch can as the culprit?

MSull16 · 05-06-2016, 03:26 PM

Best of luck my friend. I really hope you get this sorted out and that it doesnt take too long to figure out how to get it fixed. I can only imagine the headache this is. I always get stressed over little stuff but this, this is ridiculous that you are waiting so long. Hope all works out!

05-06-2016, 12:54 PM	#86
two_wheel_mayhem Would rather be riding Drives: No car no more Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Indiana Posts: 2,750	I think it just proves that everything in life has to be difficult, and it's worth fighting over because it's a lot of money, but doesn't it just figure? BTW if it came to it I would never pay them for an engine, I'd take my stuff out of the dealer in boxes and have my engine fixed, it's not disposable like a dealer would think. Warranty work is tricky because they never take your word for anything. Of course they ran your engine, they had to diagnose the problem. No skin off their back, they don't fix engines they replace them. Here's a good way to solve an LS3 oil pump failure without having to buy a new engine. If the low oil pressure warning comes on, shut the engine off and have it towed somewhere, then A, fix it yourself or B tell the service facility to push it in and tear it down because you are paying whether you are wrong or right. And, don't use the freakin' dealer. Some warranty work just isn't worth the hassle. __________________ No dog in this fight anymore. 5th Gen owner 2009-2016.

05-06-2016, 01:45 PM	#89
Ledzepx Drives: 2010 2SS Camaro 6sp. Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: South Jersey Posts: 639	We got your back. Good luck. Wish I had some parts to send you. __________________ www.rsconversions.com

05-06-2016, 02:27 PM	#91
Mr. Stacy El Duderino Drives: 2011 2LTRS Convertible Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Seattle Posts: 2,194 View My Garage	You could use some immediate relief. College Station is right between Houston, Dallas, Austin... Weekend coming. Can we organize a rally/protest for real with some of our Texas members? I'd be there in a heartbeat if it was my neighborhood. Dealership would s*t bricks if a bunch of pissed off Camaro people showed up to disrupt their little sales games __________________ I bowl. Drive around. The occasional acid flashback.*

05-06-2016, 02:37 PM	#92
Mr. Stacy El Duderino Drives: 2011 2LTRS Convertible Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Seattle Posts: 2,194 View My Garage	I only see one Chevy dealership in College Station, Tom Light. Sterling is GMC. Where did you purchase the car? __________________ I bowl. Drive around. The occasional acid flashback.

05-06-2016, 12:36 PM	#85
Elite Engineering Drives: 2010 Camaro Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Denver Posts: 1,383	GM DOES have the burden to prove the modification or service was the direct cause to the failure in question. That is US law period. The issue is the dealer is being a bully and has not been taken to task by a atty versed in the Magnasun/Moss act of 1975. It covers all in question here, and a simple letter from one of these law firms should be enough: http://www.mlmlaw.com/library/guides...s/undermag.htm This is a condensed version pertaining to the law: https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/article...ne-maintenance The dealer may be trying to "double dip" and get you to pay AND collect from GM. This is rare, but occurs and is hard for GM to police. Unless you installed a breather or a "vented" type catchcan/tank, than they have no grounds to deny your claim, especially as it is such a wide spread issue with these engines (do a Google search and find hundreds of failures of oil pumps) and if you have a closed system catchcan such as any of the Elite systems, then it is impossible for it to have any impact on oil pressure or the oil pumps failure. You have done alot of good work, but time to search for a law firm versed in the Magnasun/Moss act and at least get a letter going out. DO NOT let this dealer bully you, you have the federal law and FTC on your side. Let us know if we can of more assistance.

05-06-2016, 01:40 PM	#88
Superman09 Account SNAFU Drives: 13 Tahoe 79 Scout II 15 1LE Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: College Station, TX Posts: 1,356 View My Garage	Thanks for the encouragement guys. I am assuming it is the oil pump that failed based solely on my own research. Neither the dealer nor GM has said what failed, only that the catch can caused the failure. I have an Elite catch can that was installed correctly. So, it's not like it's some thrown together ebay special or homemade job. The car was not making any abnormal noises when it left my possession. I have been working on cars my entire life and was a mechanic professionally for a few years and know what to listen for. The only way for me to find out if the engine is making noise is to put a new oil pump on, reassemble the engine, and fire it up. Unfortunately, in doing that I almost guarantee that GM and the dealer will wash their hands of any fault due to me doing to the reassembly. I could take it to another shop but that would cost money that may or may not help me in the long run and could also tie the shop up in an legal proceedings that they may or may not want to be involved in. A couple of shops I have spoken to don't want to get involved since it has already been torn apart and they don't want to put together someone else's problem. My current financial situation is either repair the car depending on what that is, or hire a lawyer. And unfortunately the car needs to be running as my 1980 scout is barely road worthy and I don't really like driving it by myself let alone with my two kids in it. I am going to do some more research and reading and will try to keep this updated. I really appreciate the kind words. This whole situation really feels like a kick in the nuts but the comradery in the Camaro family is great.

05-06-2016, 03:26 PM	#98
MSull16 Drives: '10 Camaro SS LS3 Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Marlyand/DC Posts: 245	Best of luck my friend. I really hope you get this sorted out and that it doesnt take too long to figure out how to get it fixed. I can only imagine the headache this is. I always get stressed over little stuff but this, this is ridiculous that you are waiting so long. Hope all works out!