IPF Camaro V6 vs Procharger Mustang V6 (Soon)

[Ventmaster]

Originally Posted by Lil' Nasty

Do you know the part # for the stock (IPF) set up?
sorry to jack thread.

For the LLT with standard (original) size pulley, IPF used Gates K061066.
107 1/8" .

[AITI]

I agree. Work on tuning more and if needed I am sure CircD will do a re-stall for you at no cost like most do. Get that baby to launch in the sweet spot and you have 11's all day long IMHO!

[MagnumForceGB]

Originally Posted by AITI

I agree. Work on tuning more and if needed I am sure CircD will do a re-stall for you at no cost like most do. Get that baby to launch in the sweet spot and you have 11's all day long IMHO!

I actually cheated a little bit and looked at my wife's Mustang V6 MPT tune and used their cam timing as a base point. Seems to be working extremely well. I managed to brake stall the converter up to 2900 RPM's today, but I accidently left traction control on and when I released the brake and floored it, TC closed the throttle back up. That is about 500 RPM's higher than what I did at the track with DR's. After TC got done screwing up my run, I did 10-60 in 3.5 seconds with street tires, almost 0.5 seconds faster than my 10-60 run on my best 1/4 mile pass.

Best part is that my boost pressure is at 7 PSI during a lot of the acceleration, the torque converter is working it is just getting more torque out of the engine to stall it higher.

[MagnumForceGB]

Found this on the HP Tuners forums for those that want something to put them to sleep or cause suicidal thoughts. It is a study on Ethanol blends on Port vs Direct Injection.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwxy...ZnM/edit?pli=1

[AITI]

Excellent info!!!!

[MagnumForceGB]

Got it to brake stall to 3000 RPM's still, but if I try to do a flash stall the tires go up in smoke, not going to happen on the street. I also think for my setup the Minimum Best Torque timing is 23 degrees, anything lower than that just doesn't feel that good. On my best timeslip run it took 4.1 seconds to go from 60-90 MPH @ 20 degrees of timing, just did it in 3.8 seconds @ 22 degrees of timing. Temperature difference was only 2 degrees also.

The engine likes the new cam timing, it doesn't produce any knock at the locations it used to, so I might be on the right track. I'm no where near close to being done though, my timing is flat, I have to increase it one RPM range at a time to see when knock occurs, back it off and then go for the next one while making sure it is smooth.

[MagnumForceGB]

Weather is crap tonight and don't know when I will be going back to the track, too many things coming up.

Made a small comparison graph based off 2 logs. Top one is from before I went to the track after installing the converter, I floored it from a stop and the tires didn't spin and you can see the slow but steady RPM increase. Bottom one is from earlier this week, left traction control on because without it the car is uncontrollable. You can see how much faster 2nd gear was, if I had traction it would have been even shorter.

That huge spike in the green MPH line is from the shift, it shifts so hard the tires will spin for a split second.

[MagnumForceGB]

Got the Torque Converter installed on the Mustang V6, still have to start it up though and get the fluid level correct. If you ever want a Torque Converter though, go with Circle D, both converters were a perfect match, no shims were required. The Mustang V6 converter was actually bigger than the one I got from Circle D, and the stock stall is 2500 RPM according to the manual, probably why the auto's are so much stronger.

[MagnumForceGB]

Car is way too much fun now. There are a few roads than when I take a right turn after it shifts into 2nd I floor it to get up to speed, now the tires are breaking free in 2nd gear. I modified the optimal spark table in the low end and it helped get the engine to rev faster. When I floor it, even in 5th it will jump to 4,000 RPM's and start moving. Happy with the tune now, but I need to stop myself from getting a 3.125" pulley and really pushing it. I have plenty of fuel now and the timing looks good. But the problem is the more boost, the more heat and don't know what the real oil temp is.

I am also driving the Mustang V6 so I can get MPT to work on getting its converter nailed down. Feeling a converter on a NA car, it is definitely something the Camaro V6 needs. Normal driving it is almost like stock, first gear might feel like its sluggish though. Nail the throttle and the RPM's climb right to the powerband.

And this shirt needs to be re-made:
http://blipshift.com/products/use-the-force

[JantzenOKC]

I'd wear that t-shirt lol.

[MagnumForceGB]

Been doing a lot of reading to make sure I'm in the safe area for timing and from what I've seen, it is. I will have to test it out on the track but the LNF guys say after 23-24 you won't see any performance gains. I also did more research about the LNF limits since they have blown those up plenty of times and it is close to our engines. They say 23 PSI is safe, 24 is reducing the life of the ring lands, 25 is a quick death. Using the page Gretchen provided in the Max Boost thread, came up with these numbers with the 9.2:1 compression ratio.

23 PSI + 9.2:1 = 23.59 effective
24 PSI + 9.2:1 = 24.22 effective
25 PSI + 9.2:1 = 24.85 effective

For the LLT, looks like 16 is max, 17 is pushing it. 18 and the supercharger is a heat pump.

16 PSI + 11.3:1 = 23.60 effective
17 PSI + 11.3:1 = 24.37 effective

LFX has a higher ratio of 11.5:1, so it lowers boost by about 0.5 or 1 PSI max.

15 PSI + 11.5:1 = 23.23
16 PSI + 11.5:1 = 24.02
17 PSI + 11.5:1 = 24.80

Of course this does nothing for the fueling but that should be the internal limits since the construction is almost the same.

[MagnumForceGB]

Next Friday is looking bad for going to the track, 40% chance of rain. I have everything tuned right now and the weather goes to crap.

I did verify my knock sensors are still working, I removed one of my meth nozzles and I immediately got the knock picked up. Re-installed the meth nozzle and the knock was still there where it wasn't before, the ECU learned it and wouldn't let it go. I reloaded the tune and no more timing being pulled, so the ECU can pick up bad habits if you change things. Looks like my engine needs 1 GPH per PSI of boost.

My engine RPM's spiking at 4000-4300 when I get on the throttle from a roll, so the stall is working correctly now. Circle D built the stall perfectly, it just exposed how badly my low RPM tuning was. Bad part is I want to put a Circle D torque converter on my 5.0 now, once you get used to how it feels you hate going to a stock converter.

[MagnumForceGB]

Washed my car and it gained 50 HP. The weather actually cooled down so I was able to test the boost in 60 degree weather. Got just about 13.5 psi, no issues with knock or fueling. Engine is running very well, so maybe next Friday I can see what times I get at the track.

[MagnumForceGB]

Another useless fact, it takes 0.4 seconds for the camshafts to go from their parked location to their full advanced or retarded position. The intake cam has to travel further than the exhaust cam, but if you can get the engine loaded up to 65% you can reduce the amount of time it takes to get the intake cam into its best position by half. At its parked position it reduces the compression ratio by closing the intake valve very late, causing a lot of torque loss. This might be the real reason for the "slow" throttle response people feel in the V6 from a dead stop. In the full advanced position, the intake valve closes right when the piston reaches bottom, so no air is getting pushed back past the valves. At higher RPM's it can close later since air will have velocity and will want to fall down even when the piston is head back up, allowing more than 100% Volumetric Efficiency.

You can advance the intake cam at a lower RPM and lower load to prevent this, but you will sacrifice fuel economy.