The 2011+ Mustang Thread

[thePill]

Option? Provide an LS9/MH3 ZL1 option, focus on maximum profits on the LSA/MG9 combo so GM can take a hit on the LS9 option. Jack the MSRP on the lower end ZL1 and its options (such as MRC, brake package ect.) so they can take a manageable bump on the LS9.

Remember, sales still count here and like it or not, the Camaro looks are still pretty fresh as the GT500 looks old... it is old, which is why some new body work is incoming..

[stand-al0ne]

Originally Posted by BigDan

I got my 2011's curb weight down to 3,660lbs just by doing a wheel and tire swap.

Other members report that going to a O/R mid pipe drops another 30lbs and add a carbon fiber driveshaft and that should put me in the 3,5xx range. Later on I want to get the Griggs GR40 suspension and that plus light weight brakes should shave another 120lbs and that should bring my 600hp GT500 down to the 3,4xx range.

I think he asked when the OEMs are going to start shedding the weight...

[2010SLVRBULIT]

reminds me of...mortal combat!!

[radz28]

Originally Posted by thePill

Looking at the LSA, I can see a very few weak links preventing it from making LS9 power from the factory. First, the powder coated rods. Although I personally know for sure that they are good up to LS9 power, not sure if GM wants to warranty that. Second, the hyper-eutectic cast aluminum pistons. These are NOT your standard cast pistons of old, they are very durable, In fact, they actually last longer than the LS9's forged pistons over time due to the polymer coating... Even though I have confidence in these pistons to produce LS9 power, the next limitation will ultimately put them on the spot... Third, the 1.9 liter TVS, a 2.3 liter is needed, providing 10.5lbs of boost replacing the 1.9L at 9lbs. This extra 1.5lbs of boost will no doubt test the LSA's piston's and rod's. Forged aluminum pistons and steel rods could easily handle the extra boost and is very possible. I know GM has a CTS-V race car, I would look into that cars LSA and see if such a setup exist... If its on the race track, GM can build it...

But... All three of those quick fixes will bring about another MAJOR concern. The TR6060 transmission is still only rated at 560 ft lbs and I warned of this before. If the transmission was built by GM then it really would matter what the TQ rating was but the fact is that this TR6060 MG9 is a Tremec product. The next logical step would be to use the TR6060 MH3 that the LS9 uses. It is validated to 620ft lbs... By that time though, GM might as well go with the LS9...

But.... Now were talking about a $30,000 drivetrain which is about 12k over the LSA/MG9 combo. Good news is the ZL1 will shed about 30lbs from the engine, bad news is, it will gain it back in the transmission... It will however, be superior to anything GM has...

Does GM want the ZL1 so close to the ZR1? I never could have predicted that Ford would have opted for a bigger displacement along with the TVS. Ford is pushing up right beside the ZR1 because they know the Camaro will not push there. It also puts GM in a drivetrain dilemma with both the engine and transmission. There will again be weight savings from the GT500/SVT Cobra, it will be cheaper than the 5.4/6060 combo and I would bet my next 2 paychecks that this will have the suspension and 305 tires it needs to do so. In light of this announcement, it also tells me that the 2012 GT500's are already gone and offering a 2013 GT500/SVT Cobra with upgrades is a great way to sell 30k GT500 owners those upgrades via Ford Racing and make double bank... If this engine truly is the Coyote long stroke 5.8, there is very little GM can do to match it in the same price range...

OOOOOO!!! A tech' post!!!!

As far as those rods - I think GM went with the Ti rods in LS9 for their weight, perhaps, more than because of their strength. They wanted lighter weight to get the revs' higher, and lighter rods enabled that, along with the other tricks they used to control the valvetrain. Isn't Ti more briddle than steel? That's not entirely desirable in all automotive applications, is it? I believe aluminum is desirable because they take the shock from N20 better, no (for example)?

Pistons - people seem very quick to take away any qualities of these hyper' pistons. It's like many automatically think they're the same as the "standard" LS3/L99 pistons, and they're not. In addition - the oil squirters are also going to assist those stay together more effectively. But don't both LS9 and LSA pistons have the coatings on the skirts?

SC - would it be possible that the 10.5 psi in the 2300 is necessary to produce the 80 more horse' and overcome inefficiencies in the packaging for LS9 in ZR1's body? I know they had to go to great lengths to keep the hood height low enough for visibility through the windshield which meant they really had to squish the SC and plenum down. Looking at the intercooler bricks on LS9, it's easy to see air is forced to change direction and shape to conform to the passages, IMVHO. Do you think this could have an effect on boost, since it is a reflection of restriction?

I think the CTS-V car is running an NA LS3-type engine, isn't it?... I don't know - that's why I'm asking

I like the rest of the specific points you make about the powertrain and chassis, too. The engine can make all the power in the world, but it won't matter if the chassis can't take it and use it.

I like your comments about pushing this model Mustang closer to Corvette. CAMARO doesn't have to be elevated to this level because that's what the 'Vette is for. HOWEVER - the Mustang is supposed to be a Pony Car, and CAMARO was brought to life to fight the Mustang, so should GM push to move CAMARO to that level, too? I think 'Vette can justify it's price with all of it's models, and actually over-delivers in some cases, but I don't think GM would be wise to push CAMARO that far. I do think that that might push those buyers into 'Vettes at those prices. I wouldn't say that for the prices we think ZL1 will be from what we're speculating now, but pushing the price higher would make me change my opinion.

[stand-al0ne]

Originally Posted by thePill

Does GM want the ZL1 so close to the ZR1? I never could have predicted that Ford would have opted for a bigger displacement along with the TVS. Ford is pushing up right beside the ZR1 because they know the Camaro will not push there.

Ford has to use the Mustang to push there because thats their only horse in the race, no pun intended. The mustang has to battle a range from v6 sippers to ZR1s if they want to have something to sell to the various levels of performance cars.

GM and Mopar developed platforms exclusive to high performance expectations ala Corvette and Viper. Ford has extra work cut-out for them taking a platform used on $20k cars and trying to make something that will perform as well as the Corvette and Viper.

Its a shame the Ford GT has been out of production for years now- I really like that car

[stand-al0ne]

Originally Posted by radz28

I might have to respectfully disagree with you there... Personally - I LOVE how the Z'ohs and ZR1s look; seriously. I'd totally rock either of those (after my ZL1 ) but I understand what you're saying. I just have not really got what many have said about the lack of distinction between the 'Vette models. I think they're easy to see, but I'm in the minority



There are a fair amount in my parts. I LOVE seeing them every time. I like them way more than C5s. C6s just have a lot more charisma, IMVHO, and I stop what I'm doing everytime I see a Z'oh or ZR1.

That's just me though

Completely agree. I dont see how its hard for people to distinguish the differences ...I mean, my girlfriend prob wouldnt pick up on them, but also shes not into cars either...

Also, I'd take a Z06 over the ZL1 - I dont care how many millions there are, Its what I like. I dont think there being millions of Ipods sold stopped anyone from buying one...

[radz28]

Originally Posted by stand-al0ne

Ford has to use the Mustang to push there because thats their only horse in the race, no pun intended. The mustang has to battle a range from v6 sippers to ZR1s if they want to have something to sell to the various levels of performance cars.

GM and Mopar developed platforms exclusive to high performance expectations ala Corvette and Viper. Ford has extra work cut-out for them taking a platform used on $20k cars and trying to make something that will perform as well as the Corvette and Viper.

Its a shame the Ford GT has been out of production for years now- I really like that car

True. But I still don't like the idea that there is a 'Stang out there than is better than CAMARO...

I REALLY don't think they can really compete with the likes of ZR1 with a Mustang; at least not this generation. I don't know that it will keep up with a Carbon Z'oh...

It'd be nice to see the GT come back, though. I've wanted to see a good ZR1, Viper, and GT fight for a long time

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by stand-al0ne

Ford has to use the Mustang to push there because thats their only horse in the race, no pun intended. The mustang has to battle a range from v6 sippers to ZR1s if they want to have something to sell to the various levels of performance cars.

GM and Mopar developed platforms exclusive to high performance expectations ala Corvette and Viper. Ford has extra work cut-out for them taking a platform used on $20k cars and trying to make something that will perform as well as the Corvette and Viper.

Its a shame the Ford GT has been out of production for years now- I really like that car

It does give Ford an advantage in the pony car market.

As long as a Viper and a Vette are around the companies have those ceilings for their Challenger and Camaro.

Just keep the GT500/or Cobra at the power level of the highest Vette or Viper and you will put GM and Dodge in a tough spot.

The last thing both companies want to do is sell a car with as much or more power as their flagship performer at half the cost.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

It does give Ford an advantage in the pony car market.

As long as a Viper and a Vette are around the companies have those ceilings for their Challenger and Camaro.

Just keep the GT500/or Cobra at the power level of the highest Vette or Viper and you will put GM and Dodge in a tough spot.

The last thing both companies want to do is sell a car with as much or more power as their flagship performer at half the cost.

Points taken.

Is there a market for this car, though? Obviously - the Ford guys wouldn't think twice, but what about non-Ford people. Is this Mustang really supposed to be expected to be compared to top-level 'Vettes and Vipers?

[Alain]

Originally Posted by thePill

I'm just gonna put this picture up again because I know Ford is all over this site.

UNLEASH THE TERMINATOR!!!

WOW dude !!! if that mustangs looks like that i might have to really consider it !!!

the way the new mustang looks is my biggest gripe with that car. it looks like a high school girl should be driving it.

but this new rendering looks phenomenal !!!!

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by radz28

Points taken.

Is there a market for this car, though? Obviously - the Ford guys wouldn't think twice, but what about non-Ford people. Is this Mustang really supposed to be expected to be compared to top-level 'Vettes and Vipers?

It will have as much of a market as their is for pony cars.

And this will be a halo type car.

Didn't the Z06 only sale like 500 units last year?

I doubt Ford is banking the future of the company on the GT500.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

It will have as much of a market as their is for pony cars.

And this will be a halo type car.

Didn't the Z06 only sale like 500 units last year?

I doubt Ford is banking the future of the company on the GT500.

It'll be interesting if this is the way the GT500 goes. I'd like to see what technology it brings to the table.

[Alain]

like others have mentioned already. 60,000 dollars for a muscle car just turns me right off (no matter what the horse power is).

I feel like it kind of kills the car even before it launches. Yes, i'm sure it has to be that expensive in order for the manufacturer to make a profit. But i don't know how many of you guys can afford a 60,000 dollar muscle car when you have to be able to afford another more practical car and pay for a mortgage and college.

Of course there is a small percentage of people out there that will be able to afford this car at that price. So i don't feel too bad about this car making 100 more HP then the camaro cause i won't be anywhere near being able to afford one. lol

on the other hand, if it looks like that rendering that was posted on the first page of this thread, I might have to put off having kids and buying a house so i can save some dough for a down payment lololololol

[bobby35ny]

Knew this was coming, Guess Ford did too...
Now maybe GM will price the ZL1 in the low 40's...

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...th-600-hp.html