The 2011+ Mustang Thread

[Sax1031]

It should be noted that Ford engineered the GT500 for 800hp. Until you reach that mark the powertrain/drivetrain are in place. If it pushes past that you have to start really changing things up.

[ViperTomcat]

If Ford was wanting to compete with the ZR1, they'd bring back the GT with either an upgraded 5.4 or a Twin Turbo 5.0.

Nope, the GT500 is squarely aimed at the ZL1, or should I say, the ZL1 is squarely aimed at the GT500.

[ViperTomcat]

Originally Posted by radz28

Gotta' pay to play

Yes! But the point is..how much is GM willing to pay?

[motorhead]

This Hp Stuff in cars like this is a mute point after awhile. None of them have the chassis or the suspend to use up all of this power. They're starting to put supercar HP into cars that aren't supercars. That's why the supersnake is pretty much a worthless car for the money. I guess if you just want to say you have 750HP and willing to spend the money to say it,then so be it.

To make one of these cars really work with this kind of power the car is going to be over 100grand. You can't have things both ways.

[bobby35ny]

Radz28, How can you NOT see that GM is in a bind?
Your sig alone tells the story. ZL1 is going after the GT500.
GT500 will have 620hp, what is GM to do?
-bobby

[ssump29]

Originally Posted by motorhead

This Hp Stuff in cars like this is a mute point after awhile. None of them have the chassis or the suspend to use up all of this power. They're starting to put supercar HP into cars that aren't supercars. That's why the supersnake is pretty much a worthless car for the money. I guess if you just want to say you have 750HP and willing to spend the money to say it,then so be it.

To make one of these cars really work with this kind of power the car is going to be over 100grand. You can't have things both ways.

Best post in this thread. This is the little fact people forget allllll the time. i have wayyyyyy more hp in my GTO then a lamborghini murcielago LP640 and don't weight too much more then that car yet the way that car is built runs numbers I could only wish.

[BigDan]

Originally Posted by motorhead

This Hp Stuff in cars like this is a mute point after awhile. None of them have the chassis or the suspend to use up all of this power. They're starting to put supercar HP into cars that aren't supercars. That's why the supersnake is pretty much a worthless car for the money. I guess if you just want to say you have 750HP and willing to spend the money to say it,then so be it.

To make one of these cars really work with this kind of power the car is going to be over 100grand. You can't have things both ways.

What is so hard about throwing a set of sticky tires under these high hp car's? Supersnakes and ZR1's are good for 10's all day with the tires I roll around on everyday in my sig pic. Tires are the cheap and the key to hooking up all this power, or buying an AWD.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by ViperTomcat

Yes! But the point is..how much is GM willing to pay?

We pay, too, though not as much

Originally Posted by motorhead

This Hp Stuff in cars like this is a mute point after awhile. None of them have the chassis or the suspend to use up all of this power. They're starting to put supercar HP into cars that aren't supercars. That's why the supersnake is pretty much a worthless car for the money. I guess if you just want to say you have 750HP and willing to spend the money to say it,then so be it.

To make one of these cars really work with this kind of power the car is going to be over 100grand. You can't have things both ways.

That's exactly how I've been trying to justify it.

I nominate this as post of the day and offer you my humblest KUDOS!

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

Radz28, How can you NOT see that GM is in a bind?
Your sig alone tells the story. ZL1 is going after the GT500.
GT500 will have 620hp, what is GM to do?
-bobby

That is several months old, as far as we know. Besides - who's to say that they are testing there? They can have different cars to test different things. That car might be testing the suspension dynamics or something I can't even fathom. Additionally - we have less information about the GT500 as we do ZL1. Nothing's been confirmed for the GT500, and we have nothing confirmed from GM in terms of power. And, again, it's not only about the power.

[Speedy1975]

You gotta hand it to Ford. They really cater to their enthusiasts.

You guys quit worrying if the ZL1 will have 600HP....at least you get a factory supercharged car in your line up.

I love the looks of the Challenger, but Dodge really needs to step up and give us a FI option.

Glad I built my own.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

You gotta hand it to Ford. They really cater to their enthusiasts.

You guys quit worrying if the ZL1 will have 600HP....at least you get a factory supercharged car in your line up.

I love the looks of the Challenger, but Dodge really needs to step up and give us a FI option.

Glad I built my own.

I think that's been the case to a greater extent than GM for a little while, but I think times are changing. It seems like a lot of customer focus was infused into the 5th Gen. Perhaps it's stiff fair to say Ford still caters to the enthusiast more, but perhaps they were in a better position. I don't know all the politics, so I won't comment more than that, but I think GM's coming around more and more and think this is only the beginning; we'll see a lot more as time goes on.

Thinking about it more, I think it was a different mindset. For example - the 4th Gen was an enthusiast car. The Mustang, I think, has by and large been about the general population. While that's contrary to my earlier comments, I think that it is a result of focusing on sales more as being a possible reason why Ford's been in a position to cater better. If the Mustang has been selling better, more $$$ can be infused into R&D and offer a broader range to the public.

[stand-al0ne]

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

Radz28, How can you NOT see that GM is in a bind?
Your sig alone tells the story. ZL1 is going after the GT500.
GT500 will have 620hp, what is GM to do?
-bobby

perhaps, but thats subjective because now it seems like Ford is trading blows with GM on paper. Which isnt to say GM isnt going to return one on paper as well, because they have not locked in their HP figure for the ZL1.
And as we all know, each company still has time and resources to fine-tune either motor up a bit to the point of where the feel they can win the HP war.

I also acknowledge GM for being the last US company to fight the good fight on two fronts (Camaro category and Vette category) - since Ford is using only the Mustang and Dodge only has the Challenger (until the return of the Viper).

Furthermore, I give them credit by taking the same basic equation and applying it to their luxury line to come up with genuine BMW/MB/Audi fighters. The CTS-V coupe is an M3/S5 beater, the sedan goes head to head with E-class AMG and M-5, and the CTS-V wagon is going to do very well against the S6 Advant and E-class wagons. All of which seem to make having numerous gas-guzzler vehicles under one roof make sense. (the BMW and MB cars all carry gas guzzler taxes as well)

I don't see Ford or Dodge being able to enter those rings with any Chrysler or Lincoln offerings

[radz28]

Originally Posted by stand-al0ne

perhaps, but thats subjective because now it seems like Ford is trading blows with GM on paper. Which isnt to say GM isnt going to return one on paper as well, because they have not locked in their HP figure for the ZL1.
And as we all know, each company still has time and resources to fine-tune either motor up a bit to the point of where the feel they can win the HP war.

I also acknowledge GM for being the last US company to fight the good fight on two fronts (Camaro category and Vette category) - since Ford is using only the Mustang and Dodge only has the Challenger (until the return of the Viper).

Furthermore, I give them credit by taking the same basic equation and applying it to their luxury line to come up with genuine BMW/MB/Audi fighters. The CTS-V coupe is an M3/S5 beater, the sedan goes head to head with E-class AMG and M-5, and the CTS-V wagon is going to do very well against the S6 Advant and E-class wagons. All of which seem to make having numerous gas-guzzler vehicles under one roof make sense. (the BMW and MB cars all carry gas guzzler taxes as well)

I don't see Ford or Dodge being able to enter those rings with any Chrysler or Lincoln offerings

OK - this might tie my earlier nomination for the day

[thePill]

I'm researching Tremec transmissions and so far the TR6060 MH3 is the best option, I can't see any other feasible option. GM already stated that the ZL1 will use the TR6060 MG9 so im not sure how this is going to work.

I also did some digging into Ford's Getrag MT82 to see if it could hold 600+ ft lbs. First let me say that the Getrag gearbox that Ford chose to go with is actually called the 6MTI500 on Getrag's site because Ford actually co-engineered the MT82 with Getrag specifically for the Coyote. Foreign transmission manufacturers rate transmissions a little different than US (Tremec) does. They use a maximum torque capacity or sustained torque rating instead of a maximum torque rating mostly because peak torque only occurs in one place in the powerband for a split second.

Ford's version of the 6MTI500 (MT82) is specific to the Coyote , although, the 6MTI500 is also used by Range Rover but has a 5.44 first gear ratio. The 6MTI500 was a 4 way collaboration to reduce cost which is why a brand new MT82 only cost $2500. The 6MTI500 was rated at 500nm or 369ft lbs of torque at a gross vehicle weight of 4250kg or 9350LBS!!!! (Gotta love those Germans). At that vehicle weight, the torque rating could be twice that in a vehicle that weighs 3800lbs or well over 750ft lbs... It is assembled in China (to reduce cost again).

I initially thought that the sustained torque rating alone was why Ford elected to use the Getrag but never figured in the vehicle weight as a major consideration factored into transmission production. I will continue to look at Tremec to see if the vehicle weights were excessive as the Getrag's was...

[Sleestack]

Originally Posted by stand-al0ne

perhaps, but thats subjective because now it seems like Ford is trading blows with GM on paper. Which isnt to say GM isnt going to return one on paper as well, because they have not locked in their HP figure for the ZL1.
And as we all know, each company still has time and resources to fine-tune either motor up a bit to the point of where the feel they can win the HP war.

I also acknowledge GM for being the last US company to fight the good fight on two fronts (Camaro category and Vette category) - since Ford is using only the Mustang and Dodge only has the Challenger (until the return of the Viper).

Furthermore, I give them credit by taking the same basic equation and applying it to their luxury line to come up with genuine BMW/MB/Audi fighters. The CTS-V coupe is an M3/S5 beater, the sedan goes head to head with E-class AMG and M-5, and the CTS-V wagon is going to do very well against the S6 Advant and E-class wagons. All of which seem to make having numerous gas-guzzler vehicles under one roof make sense. (the BMW and MB cars all carry gas guzzler taxes as well)

I don't see Ford or Dodge being able to enter those rings with any Chrysler or Lincoln offerings

Me no likey paper cars.... real ones are much more fun