The 2011+ Mustang Thread

[thePill]

Looks like there are two of them and for some reason Motor Trend is dead quiet.

[rez333]

I totally agree with you. The spirit of discussion has to be healthy.

Originally Posted by radz28

I question the intent of some members sometimes in our Community. While I, too, value the expression of ideas and opinions, there are sometimes people who abuse that to a degree. While our Country is free, this Community is not. This Community is not a democracy, and while I think I strive to make it as open, in my judgement as possible, I sometimes see others use their freedom to put down ideas, enthusiasm, etc. in our Community. Some feel the need to come in and correct misinformation, as it is put, sometimes, and oftentimes make little subtle digs and jabs; try to take away from achievements Team CAMARO has made and deminish the love that some have for this nameplate. I've read we're considered draconian in the CAMARO Community, but feel this is a tight ship, and the most friendly overall. It's fine to share opinions and thoughts and comment on what you like, but this is STILL a CAMARO Community and is run by CAMARO enthusiasts. Don't think for a minute I'll allow someone with the intent on deminishing the integrity of enthusiasm of this Community. It's all relative. If someone who doesn't share enthusiasm for CAMARO comes to this Community - fine; but I ask why be here unless your intent is to cause trouble or strife? I don't think someone has to share my fanatasism, but you don't go to France and get pissed-off that their culture, food, and language is not the same as yours. When in Rome...

[stand-al0ne]

Originally Posted by thePill

There is a con to the 6L90 though, it weighs 240lbs which is 89lbs heavier then a Dual Clutch TR6060 MG9..

That is a fat daddy, considering the one your comparing it to is a Dual Clutch unit, which notoriously weigh alot...

But do you think the added weight is inevitable considering the power its asked of to handle?

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by thePill

I did some research into the... uggg... Automatic option. Even though I am not a huge fan of auto's, GM's Hydramatic 6L90 is badass. It is the same auto used in the CTS-V and actually puts down faster times than the CTS-V's 6M. The 6L90 has a maximum torque rating of 531tq but here's the thing, the transmission was certified at 15,000lbs. Its pretty safe to say the ZL1 will not weigh 15,000lbs so, just as Cadillac did, they can use the transmission and exceed the torque rating because there will be far less resistance put on the mainshaft and tailhousing. A transmission would have an unlimited torque rating if the rear wheels were lifted off the ground, allowed to spin resistance free and rated that way, but the rating is figured from force (from the engine) and resistance (from weight and traction). The 6L90's standard rating far exceeds any kind of resistance the ZL1 could ever provide. Therefore, It is very possible that the ZL1, matched with a 6L90 could produce the amount of torque (600-700) necessary to compete, numbers vs. numbers.

I can honestly say I DO NOT like standard autos but, look at the gear ratio's the 6L90 has:
Maximum engine power: 452 bhp ( 337 kW ), Diesel: 300bhp ( 223kW )
Maximum engine torque: 531 lb-ft ( 720 Nm ), Diesel: 520 lb-ft ( 705 Nm )
Maximum gearbox torque: 885 lb-ft ( 1200 Nm )
Gear ratios: MYD
First: 4.03
Second: 2.36
Third: 1.53
Fourth: 1.15
Fifth: 0.85
Sixth: 0.67
Reverse: -3.06
Maximum shift speed 6000 rpm
Maximum Validated Weights: ( Target ) GVW: 15000 lb ( 6803 kg ), GCVW: 21000 lb ( 9525 kg )

This makes the TR6060 MG9 ratio's look weak. They might not be able to use a 3.73 final gear ratio, but if they did... The ZL1 would make good use of those 305's.

Would the max rpm really be 6000rpm with that tranny?

[Blackbean]

Point of order:
This thread is under "General Discussion + Other Cars Discussion ,Come chat about other cars"
I enjoy high performance cars, and have posted pictures on my profile page, of those autos,including my wife's 08 Corvette.
None of my comments were aimed at emasculating anyone's sensitive feelings,and it isn't often that the troll is a moderator.How do you get off saying I am untruthful?
Hey,I paid for both of my Camaro's, and if I like a different car, that's my taste.

The little fox could not reach the grapes,so he left saying,"they are probably sour anyway."

[Milk 1027]

Originally Posted by Blackbean

Point of order:
This thread is under "General Discussion + Other Cars Discussion ,Come chat about other cars"
I enjoy high performance cars, and have posted pictures on my profile page, of those autos,including my wife's 08 Corvette.
None of my comments were aimed at emasculating anyone's sensitive feelings,and it isn't often that the troll is a moderator.How do you get off saying I am untruthful?
Hey,I paid for both of my Camaro's, and if I like a different car, that's my taste.

The little fox could not reach the grapes,so he left saying,"they are probably sour anyway."

Did you bother reading any of my posts, (the serious ones) or are you just stuck on the fact that you think I insulted you? Read your post again. Your claim makes no sense. You're trying to push a fact as opinion. I'm not trying to insult anyone, but this entire thread is rediculous.

[garagelogic]

I'm not sure what the purpose of the camo on the GT500's pictured above is. It's not like this is a new bodystyle. As far as I can tell in the pictures, it's exactly the same as the 2011/12 GT500.

[bobby35ny]

I don't get this be a fanboy or get lost.
Gt500 gets 620hp ZL gets at least say 560hp
2 things can happen.

1. gt500 gets 620 and zl1 gets 560 and us camaro guys get kicked in the nuts.
2. gt500 gets 620 and zl1 gets 600+ and we WIN!! DUH.. WINNING!!

Ford just uped the ante, its a GOOD thing. Lets see how GM responds.
I really think GM will counter. If they don't the ZL1 launch will be a non event.
Fanboys and us Camaro OWNERS can't stick up for GM is they don't counter the 620hp.
How can you defend that? GM made it perfectly clear that they were going after the GT500

=Bobby

[thePill]

Originally Posted by stand-al0ne

That is a fat daddy, considering the one your comparing it to is a Dual Clutch unit, which notoriously weigh alot...

But do you think the added weight is inevitable considering the power its asked of to handle?

Automatic's are naturally heavier, there is no getting around that. Gotta look at the positives that come from an 89lb weight gain. The transmission is leaps and bounds better than the TR6060 MG9. It shifts faster, its gear ratio's are extremely aggressive (as all autos are). The Hydramatic is cheap, way cheaper than the TR6060 new and it is a GM transmission... Its only an $1800 dollar option on the CTS-V (that is very, very inexpensive for an automatic let alone one of this caliper) and the extra weight is very close to the center of gravity and pretty much mid-car... and is paddle shift capable.

Put a steep final gear ratio in the ZL1 and that will be a very fast 0-60 and a great way to overcome the extra 89lbs.

[thePill]

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

Would the max rpm really be 6000rpm with that tranny?

That was the spec's from the 2009, I do believe it was upgraded for the following year. That goes to show you how fast GM can move when it is an all GM drivetrain. I know the current LSA revs out pass 6200...

[Milk 1027]

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

I don't get this be a fanboy or get lost.
Gt500 gets 620hp ZL gets at least say 560hp
2 things can happen.

1. gt500 gets 620 and zl1 gets 560 and us camaro guys get kicked in the nuts.
2. gt500 gets 620 and zl1 gets 600+ and we WIN!! DUH.. WINNING!!

Ford just uped the ante, its a GOOD thing. Lets see how GM responds.
I really think GM will counter. If they don't the ZL1 launch will be a non event.
Fanboys and us Camaro OWNERS can't stick up for GM is they don't counter the 620hp.
How can you defend that? GM made it perfectly clear that they were going after the GT500

=Bobby

Horsepower is not everything. I doubt the Mustang will be as technologically advanced as the Camaro

[bobby35ny]

Originally Posted by Milk 1027

Horsepower is not everything. I doubt the Mustang will be as technologically advanced as the Camaro

Understood, If the ZL1 can beat the gt500 around the ring and dragstrip with 599hp then sure, HP isnt everything and we will with 599 vs 620.
Lets face it Milk, we will NEED at least 599 to beat it...

[Milk 1027]

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

Understood, If the ZL1 can beat the gt500 around the ring and dragstrip with 599hp then sure, HP isnt everything and we will with 599 vs 620.
Lets face it Milk, we will NEED at least 599 to beat it...

That's my whole problem with this thread. How do you know what we need. This is still an uncomfirmed rumor and neither is close to hitting the streets yet. How do we have any numbers to compare or even know how close they will be?
It's worse than bench racing, because people are just making up numbers.

[garagelogic]

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

Understood, If the ZL1 can beat the gt500 around the ring...

At the ring? Are they going to box?

Originally Posted by Milk 1027

That's my whole problem with this thread. How do you know what we need. This is still an uncomfirmed rumor and neither is close to hitting the streets yet. How do we have any numbers to compare or even know how close they will be?
It's worse than bench racing, because people are just making up numbers.

Final stats for both cars are speculation at this point. Of course, that's part of the fun.