Electric Vehicles

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC

I wasn't talking about the tech

Gotcha... ;-).... I missed that...lol

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by Windycity

Solid state batteries are close to mass production and will eliminate most of the controversies regarding EVs

They probably won’t get 1000 miles to a charge by will be close and yes 10 minutes to charge is correct

Like I said, I will believe it when I see it. I won't take your word for it...

The other part of that equation is affordability. We need to wait to see what an EV with that tech costs... Also if solid state batteries are close to mass production why would anyone buy an EV with a lithium battery today? Your EV would be obsolete tech. It would be like buying a bag phone when the smart phone is a couple years off. The average person today already can't afford an EV. If solid state batteries are right around the corner how much loss will the manufacturer take today for every EV with a lithium battery that isn't sold?

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I’m a lot more confident in the cost of electricity 5 years from now than I am with the cost of gasoline 5 years from now. I think we all enjoyed those cheap gas prices…until they weren’t.

Like I said, the point of my post went right over your head. You regurgitated what you pay to charge your EV today in your response.

Now you are making a complete different argument and still not addressing my post you quoted... The truth of the matter is you have no clue what it will cost for either gas or electricity 5 years from now. You can take an educated guess, but that is the best you can do.

Also... I don't think gas is expensive... I can get a gallon of gas for $3.25. If I go to Starbucks and get a Grande Mocha, it costs more then that... That's 16 oz...! I can name all kinds of liquids we buy and consume on a daily bases that are far less then 1 gallon and cost far more...

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

They will go down. Less demand.

Unless, of course, governments pile on even more taxes in order to further "incentivize" people to buy the approved mode of transportation.

Exactly.... Less demand means lower prices.

Do people not pay attention. LOL Every time there is less demand, price per barrel of oil drops. Every time demand ramps up, price per barrel rises.

But you're right, that is exactly what the government will do. Tax the $hit out of it.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by jamala00

Like I said, the point of my post went right over your head. You regurgitated what you pay to charge your EV today in your response.

Now you are making a complete different argument and still not addressing my post you quoted... The truth of the matter is you have no clue what it will cost for either gas or electricity 5 years from now. You can take an educated guess, but that is the best you can do.

Also... I don't think gas is expensive... I can get a gallon of gas for $3.25. If I go to Starbucks and get a Grande Mocha, it costs more then that... That's 16 oz...! I can name all kinds of liquids we buy and consume on a daily bases that are far less then 1 gallon and cost far more...

Well since I am apparently intellectually challenged on this point, I’ll yield to a smarter authority. YOU tell us what electricity prices and gas prices will be 5 years from now.

[genxer]

Fast charge station price will probably price near parity to gas. Home electric prices can/will/have gone up to the level of tolerance for the climate agenda vs coal.

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Well since I am apparently intellectual challenged on this point, I’ll yield to a smarter authority. YOU tell us what electricity prices and gas prices will be 5 years from now.

I know your stance on EVs. I've seen it countless times in every EV thread there is on this forum. I can't predict what the auto landscape or cost of fuel will be in 5, 10 years... One can make an educated guess, but that is the best you can do.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

I'll give t a try...

If enough EVs are sold to require upgrades to the grid... not that the grid doesn't already need upgrading... electricity prices will go up and gasoline prices will go down.

But, based on virtually every news story from the last couple of days, it appears that not nearly as many EVs will be sold as we were led to believe so the grid should be fine and prices will remain basically where they are.

[genxer]

I enjoyed seeing this elsewhere today:

"I love my tiny Tesla that I bought for $50k. It’s amazing having to stop several times to charge on my way up north. During those two hours of charging I can really enjoy the outdoors while I see my ICE counterparts zipping by to their destination. To top it off I can use my credit card quickly at the charger to pay the expensive (but environmentally clean) charging fee."

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

I'll give t a try...

If enough EVs are sold to require upgrades to the grid... not that the grid doesn't already need upgrading... electricity prices will go up and gasoline prices will go down.

But, based on virtually every news story from the last couple of days, it appears that not nearly as many EVs will be sold as we were led to believe so the grid should be fine and prices will remain basically where they are.

Those news stories have been going on longer then a few days. I like to watch CarEdge with Ray and Zach on YouTube. They talk about current auto news and are very informative. They are the ones that own and started CarEdge.com

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC

I'm going to defend Jim, even though I disagree with some of his assessments lately. He's very knowledgeable and over the years I've appreciated his posts on this forum with an auto industry insider's experience, knowledge, and opinion. I also think it's easy to be too close to something, live/work in a bit of an echo chamber since you are deep into an industry, get really bad/skewed data in this day and age for a variety of reasons, and as always, there are many ways to interpret that data and come to differing conclusions.

Sorry, you are right... I went back and deleted my post... I shouldn't get personal in posts... My Bad...

I know you are talking about my post and if you called me out for it I wouldn't have minded...

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC

I'm going to defend Jim, even though I disagree with some of his assessments lately. He's very knowledgeable and over the years I've appreciated his posts on this forum with an auto industry insider's experience, knowledge, and opinion. I also think it's easy to be too close to something, live/work in a bit of an echo chamber since you are deep into an industry, get really bad/skewed data in this day and age for a variety of reasons, and as always, there are many ways to interpret that data and come to differing conclusions.

All this and, given he is not hiding behind a screen name and is completely transparent about who he is, he really couldn't say 'EVs are being prematurely shoved down our throats' even if he wanted to. I suspect his employment would come to an abrupt end.

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

All this and, given he is not hiding behind a screen name and is completely transparent about who he is, he really couldn't say 'EVs are being prematurely shoved down our throats' even if he wanted to. I suspect his employment would come to an abrupt end.

Exactly...! There is so much bias here by a couple people it's just laughable honestly. EV's are simply not ready for prime time in the US and the fact that the manufacturers are pulling back?? Well that kind of says what you need to know.

I've said this in every EV thread I've ever engaged in. The consumer will determine if EV's become mainstream... and right now they are saying thanks by no thanks.

[el ess A]

Originally Posted by jamala00

Also... I don't think gas is expensive... I can get a gallon of gas for $3.25. If I go to Starbucks and get a Grande Mocha, it costs more then that... That's 16 oz...! I can name all kinds of liquids we buy and consume on a daily bases that are far less then 1 gallon and cost far more...

But which one would you rather drink? Gasoline tastes like crap. I'll pay more for better flavor.

As far as the price of everything right now:


As far as Jim's assessments, he has great insights on what most of the OEMs are up to on the battery bank front. Good info. We certainly don't agree on everything, like the actual overall health of the industry, however. I'm still thinking way too many pockets are getting lined instead of using the printed money to increase the infrastructure quality and quantity where things start to make more economic sense. Hope that changes. I still believe we're further away than what the pro EV crowd wants you to believe. And now I'm reading about Germany's wind turbine manufacturing having a bunch of quality issues (besides the wind turbines' ability for murdering birds- where's the outrage, animal lovers)? That ain't good.

Now, had we had stupendous industrial and economic growth with low interest rates, I'd say we'd be in a better place to make it happen. But the slowdown is coming. "But it's not a recession!" Yeah, keep telling yourself that. Maybe you'll believe it one day. It may not seem like a recession to some, but to others, the economy is sucking donkey balls and it isn't getting better at the moment. There's a lot of people that consider climate change and green energy about 7th on the top 10 things to worry about...oh wait, recent surveys actually confirm that on a global scale.